Marantz AV10 AV Processor Review

[KenMasters]

Is the frequency response and level the same, or different? Because if it is different (and would pass a blind test), that will almost certainly dominate the perception of change. In which case it is not a DA effect, it is an EQ effect and does not require DA.

Same set of measurements, same curves and curtains applied - different character and measured FR.

 

[TimoJ]

Is the frequency response and level the same, or different? Because if it is different (and would pass a blind test), that will almost certainly dominate the perception of change. In which case it is not a ART effect, it is an EQ effect and does not require ART.

You should go somewhere and listen to a properly working ART system. You just can't do the same with EQ, PEQ, levels or any normal adjustments.

 

[Oddball]

I agree. It takes a degree of competence to conduct a controlled trial listening test, and I lack experience. Am I to assume that such competence has been on display in the DA conversation so far? You know, the DA reports that you find persuasive?

Because you seem to be saying, even if I did conduct a trial and it was better controlled than all the sighted listening reports that you freely make reference to, you will immediately dismiss it because I did it. I mean, you are accepting all these sighted listening reports on DA as valid. You are citing them constantly. Do you accept, or deny, the issue with sighted listening reports? I am curious.


You are twisting my words, no doubt deliberately.

Sighted listening reports always masquerade as evidence. They never are evidence of anything in the sound waves themselves.

I just cannot endorse their being tabled as evidence on ASR, where we are trying to be science-based.

This is my system. Have tried pretty much anything and everything and DBA was one of them. Perhaps the lack of skill made me do ART. But will no regret it until another great thing comes. Remember, we are in AI and Quantum computing age if you have forgotten that. Much bigger thoughts that you could ever hold in one's mind.

Your words don't need to be twisted - quote is a quote. And "we" is not what the forum is and you obviously can't speak for the forum despite a few more posts you have over me. If we posted according to your requirements, there would barely be any posts to read, which would be pretty sad.

My last post for you - we will need to engage the mods if we continue this discussion which is very sad event on this forum. We usually know where are the limits but you are obviously emotionally engaged which is not how it is supposed to work. I am just sharing my experience in good faith.

 

[Sal1950]

This is my system. Have tried pretty much anything and everything and DBA was one of them

No offense Oddball, but there's a lack of any real room treatment that I can see, I'm beginning to understand why ART is so effective for you.
The left wall of my listening room 'like yours' was a wall of glass that I addressed with 2" thick panels of Rockboard 60 Acoustic Insulation, also some additional treatment to the right open floor plan side.

 

[masterhw]

No offense Oddball, but there's a lack of any real room treatment that I can see, I'm beginning to understand why ART is so effective for you.
The left wall of my listening room 'like yours' was a wall of glass that I addressed with 2" thick panels of Rockboard 60 Acoustic Insulation, also some additional treatment to the right open floor plan side.
View attachment 490227


View attachment 490231

View attachment 490232

did you cover up all the windows with insulation?

 

[Oddball]

No offense Oddball, but there's a lack of any real room treatment that I can see, I'm beginning to understand why ART is so effective for you.
The left wall of my listening room 'like yours' was a wall of glass that I addressed with 2" thick panels of Rockboard 60 Acoustic Insulation, also some additional treatment to the right open floor plan side.
View attachment 490227


View attachment 490231

View attachment 490232

Sure. Any room treatment is better than none. But there is simply no way to get symmetrical response from L vs R side of my room even with ART.

 

[Sal1950]

did you cover up all the windows with insulation?

Very nearly in the listening room area, though the back wall has a huge sliding glass door for access to the outside front street.
What am I missing being not able to see the L & R neighbors only a few meters away? LOL
Tamed the hell out of slap echo, etc, etc, increased thermal insulation factor, reduces the intrusion of outside noise and my system bothering others.
All win-win for me.

 

[kawauso]

No offense Oddball, but there's a lack of any real room treatment that I can see, I'm beginning to understand why ART is so effective for you.
The left wall of my listening room 'like yours' was a wall of glass that I addressed with 2" thick panels of Rockboard 60 Acoustic Insulation, also some additional treatment to the right open floor plan side.
View attachment 490227


View attachment 490231

View attachment 490232

Covering the window glass with rockwool is a smart move. Having alternating hard surfaces and absorption usually works well.
But I don’t think the idea that “Oddball’s room had insufficient acoustic treatment, so ART had an unusually strong effect” is correct.

ART mainly operates below roughly 150 Hz, and unless someone is willing to do major construction and install full-scale bass-range treatment, the difference in wall treatment won’t matter much.
And realistically, most of us can’t rebuild our rooms like that, right?

 

[kawauso]

This is my system. Have tried pretty much anything and everything and DBA was one of them. Perhaps the lack of skill made me do ART. But will no regret it until another great thing comes. Remember, we are in AI and Quantum computing age if you have forgotten that. Much bigger thoughts that you could ever hold in one's mind.

Your words don't need to be twisted - quote is a quote. And "we" is not what the forum is and you obviously can't speak for the forum despite a few more posts you have over me. If we posted according to your requirements, there would barely be any posts to read, which would be pretty sad.

My last post for you - we will need to engage the mods if we continue this discussion which is very sad event on this forum. We usually know where are the limits but you are obviously emotionally engaged which is not how it is supposed to work. I am just sharing my experience in good faith.

View attachment 490129
View attachment 490130View attachment 490131

Your silver-and-black setup looks fantastic, and the AV10 fits that aesthetic perfectly.
It’s not a cheap unit, and the fact that it doesn’t run hot is reassuring.

If there’s physical space on the right side and it wouldn’t get in the way,
you could try placing a reflective panel there to add a bit more early reflection.
I use Yamaha’s reflective panels myself to fine-tune the amount of reflection to my taste.

 

[Newman]

You should go somewhere and listen to a properly working ART system.

Just for fun, sure.

You just can't do the same with EQ, PEQ, levels or any normal adjustments.

You don't know that. You are just making a blanket claim that you hope, just by saying it, will cancel out my valid points. It won't.

cheers

 

[masterhw]

You don't know that. You are just making a blanket claim that you hope, just by saying it, will cancel out my valid points. It won't.

mate I would LOVE to hear what amount of EQ gives me antiwaves

 

[Newman]

mate I would LOVE to hear what amount of EQ gives me antiwaves

Are you inventing a new physics of wave theory?

 

[Newman]

...Remember, we are in AI and Quantum computing age if you have forgotten that. Much bigger thoughts that you could ever hold in one's mind.

Okaaayyy....?

Your words don't need to be twisted - quote is a quote.

My words: "unsatisfactory data: (including)... sighted listening reports masquerading as confirmation."

Your "quote is a quote": "We do run apparently run a masquerade here, ... ART masquerade"

I'll let the readers decide.

And "we" is not what the forum is and you obviously can't speak for the forum despite a few more posts you have over me.

But you posted "we" and I replied "we". And again in your next sentence, below. I guess it's problem when I say it, but not when you say it?

If we posted according to your requirements, there would barely be any posts to read, which would be pretty sad.

If "we" can't comment on the validity of sighted listening reports, we might as well be on TAS or Stereophile. If the forum is a bit less bloated by the absence of sighted/uncontrolled listening reports that have obvious issues, that's a good thing IMHO.

My last post for you - we will need to engage the mods if we continue this discussion which is very sad event on this forum.

That's your choice. But ever since my first post in this series, explaining the gap between the excitement about ART and the quality of the evidence I have seen so far, and requesting quality evidence, you have been blatantly disrespectful to the point of commenting on my posts without even reading first.

We usually know where are the limits but you are obviously emotionally engaged which is not how it is supposed to work. I am just sharing my experience in good faith.

Sure, but if your experience is inherently weakened by the listening test method you used, I have to be allowed to bring that up.

View attachment 490129
View attachment 490130View attachment 490131

Nice system. Much more expensive and complete than mine.

 

[Sal1950]

Covering the window glass with rockwool is a smart move. Having alternating hard surfaces and absorption usually works well.
But I don’t think the idea that “Oddball’s room had insufficient acoustic treatment, so ART had an unusually strong effect” is correct.

ART mainly operates below roughly 150 Hz, and unless someone is willing to do major construction and install full-scale bass-range treatment, the difference in wall treatment won’t matter much.
And realistically, most of us can’t rebuild our rooms like that, right?

But, and, ---- here

 

[kawauso]

But, and, ---- here

Why are you replying to the quote from this thread in another one?

"Nobody is claiming that we should rely entirely on DRC software for all problems without room treatment. For mid and high frequencies, traditional passive treatments are still necessary. For low frequencies, without major construction, it's powerless. Sal's use of rockwool doesn't have much effect on low frequencies. Since the room treatment for Oddball’s room wasn’t particularly focused on low-end frequencies, that’s why ART worked the way it did. As for why DRC is necessary, consumers who see value in it are purchasing it and paying for all the associated costs, including the required DLBC licenses for ART. If Sal doesn’t see value in it, then he doesn't need to purchase it

 

[kawauso]

mate I would LOVE to hear what amount of EQ gives me antiwaves

Keith mentioned that reverse-engineering ART is quite difficult.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-runs-subs-of-any-kind-why.61714/post-2438079
Even just trying to reduce the delay in a simplified way seems tough to do with EQ alone.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...lia-on-erin’s-audio-corner.58943/post-2399846

 

[Sal1950]

Why are you replying to the quote from this thread in another one?

Because I've been begging a few here to consolidate their constant ART promotion to at least limit it to one or 2 threads instead of 5 or 6 or more.
So I pointed my response to you there, but yet you return here.
I get it that you like it and are excited, but a little moderation please.

 

[TimoJ]

You don't know that. You are just making a blanket claim that you hope, just by saying it, will cancel out my valid points. It won't.

cheers

I do have lots of experience of EQ, PEQ and regular Dirac. None of those do the thing that ART does. And also, I started using ART in August 2022, way before the hype started. And from the first bass note I heard, it was obvious that something special has happened to bass.

 

[kawauso]

Because I've been begging a few here to consolidate their constant ART promotion to at least limit it to one or 2 threads instead of 5 or 6 or more.
So I pointed my response to you there, but yet you return here.
I get it that you like it and are excited, but a little moderation please.

Sal, you’re asking to consolidate ART discussions into 1 or 2 threads, yet you’re posting ART-related quoted comments in this thread, which is contradictory. Also, quoting and replying to me across 3 threads is honestly a bit of a nuisance. It feels somewhat dishonest when what you say and what you do don't align

 

[Sal1950]

Sal, you’re asking to consolidate ART discussions into 1 or 2 threads, yet you’re posting ART-related quoted comments in this thread, which is contradictory. Also, quoting and replying to me across 3 threads is honestly a bit of a nuisance. It feels somewhat dishonest when what you say and what you do don't align

Sorry but your the one posting shotgun style, why are you asking me here again?
I'm just trying to coral the ART discussions, is English your second language?
PLEASE Stop.