Marantz AV10 AV Processor Review

[Vacceo]

Humm, well your certainly entitled to your opinion, it just happens to be in error.
Actually the AV-10 measures just a bit better than the AVM 90 and I'd bet you a Benjamin Franklin when run in their Pure modes you'd couldn't hear a difference. Then as with most all AV products, once you turn on DRC, and alll the rest that's where the rubber hits the road.
You can call them big box brand but Marantz has been doin this for 73 years now since Saul started building on his kitchen table in NYC , they learned a little in 7+ decades. I just bought my AV-20 it's incredible.

How´s the 20 working for you? Are you using Dirac?

 

[peng]

Could someone kindly explain why the AV10 is $7k and a single ended AVR with as many channels from the same brand or semi-equivalent like Denon is about half the cost. Yes, they don't have balanced pre-outs, but they have the added cost of amplification. So what's the added cost in terms of parts for the AV10? And final terrible question, let's say the AV10 is going into a multi-channel Buckeye Purifi Class D amp. Will there be a discernable difference from said AVRs at 70db?

I can quickly think of $7K vs $1.5K because the AV10 has the following attributes/attractions"

- much better build, and that costs more because of the more expensive enclosure, shielding scheme, power supply, dac ICs, HDAMs etc.
- higher channel count, = more parts used (such as the dac IC, HDAMs, opamps etc.
- as you mentioned, balanced I/Os, no power amps, true, but...
- they know many potential buyers believe in separating the preamp/processor from the power amps, they thought separates (even though AV10 is hardly a real "separate" device.
- they know many like the look of Marantz.
- they know their marketing team has successfully planted seeds over the years in people's brains that here is a warm and fuzzy/musical Marantz sound, facts on that don't matter, belief is enough.
- they know they can get away with, and in fact they have to, have a much higher profit margin on a per unit basis, because they know they won't sell as many units as they will with AVRs, likely just a very small fraction in terms of sales. That also means economy of scale is not on their side, resulting in higher per unit cost.

For the potential customers, if they like the aesthetic, and put their priority on build quality, superior specifications, ownership pride, they would think $7K is fair, even a good deal. I do think it is a good value, vs Trinnov, Storm Audio, Anthem's Arcam's but ommv obviously.

 

[voodooless]

many potential buyers believe

This is all they need!

 

[Dj7675]

Show me their AVRs with as many channels.

Denon A1H has the exact same number of channels as the Marantz AV10 Processor… and has 15 channels of amplification. It is also priced less than the Marantz AV10.

 

[Sal1950]

Not when Dirac ART is active. And do tone controls work with ART?

That's Dirac's issue for not supplying any bass EQ like Audysseys DEQ. A simple program that can be tweaked to your liking,
it's been a feature in most every reciever since the 1960s.
I do imagine the fact that you can't run both DRC systems is a restriction of the license.

How´s the 20 working for you?

Excellent, Just got it a couple days back and I've been very busy involved in a couple other projects.

Are you using Dirac?

No, not yet. I haven't even gotten thru a proper Audyssey setup yet. I have been using it thru 2 prior generations of Audyssey and
I know that Dirac Live + Bass is the hot setup for many here and ART is now all the rage even though it's not really completely out of Beta yet.
But seeing as a full boat ART is going to add almost another $1k to the cost I'll see what happens in the future.
After I get Audy to my liking I'll give the 30day free trial of ART a try.

 

[Dj7675]

But seeing as a full boat ART is going to add almost another $1k to the cost I'll see what happens in the future.
After I get Audy to my liking I'll give the 30day free trial of ART a try.

There should be a Black Friday sale offering 20-30% off coming up.

 

[Sal1950]

There should be a Black Friday sale offering 20-30% off coming up.

OK, you buy it.

 

[Dj7675]

OK, you buy it.

I am Will be using it with an A1H. If it is 30% the total package (Dirac+DLBC+Art) would be around $560 (30% off of $799)Not insignificant for sure, but also not $1K.

 

[TimoJ]

That's Dirac's issue for not supplying any bass EQ like Audysseys DEQ.

No, it's Denon/Marantz's issue for not adding it. It's not a part of Dirac and probably never will be.

 

[Sal1950]

No, it's Denon/Marantz's issue for not adding it

They DO, it's a part of Audyssey, a Dirac install removes it.
What part of that don't you understand?

It's not a part of Dirac and probably never will be.

And IMHO that is a Major Failing of Dirac !
What's their problem with including a tonal shelving application that's a proven part of the human hearing?
A "equal-loudness contour" has been included on most every receiver/preamp since 1933 ?
Just because Dirac insists on excluding it doesn't make them right.

 

[masterhw]

And IMHO that is a Major Failing of Dirac !
What's their problem with including a tonal shelving application that's a proven part of the human hearing?
A "equal-loudness contour" has been included on most every receiver/preamp since 1933 ?
Just because Dirac insists on excluding it doesn't make them right.

I agree, but I (perhaps generously) assume that there could be a technical limitation. Perhaps to do so would require a re-generating of the filters, which the devices aren’t powerful enough to do (this is why it takes places on your laptop).

 

[TimoJ]

They DO, it's a part of Audyssey, a Dirac install removes it.
What part of that don't you understand?


And IMHO that is a Major Failing of Dirac !
What's their problem with including a tonal shelving application that's a proven part of the human hearing?
A "equal-loudness contour" has been included on most every receiver/preamp since 1933 ?
Just because Dirac insists on excluding it doesn't make them right.

There are AVPs that have Dirac and also have loudness. So it's Denon/Marantz failing.

 

[voodooless]

It’s probably a licensing thing preventing additional bass control, dynamic volume or basic tone controls.

 

[hwest]

I doubt you (or pretty much anyone) could tell the difference between an AV10, and a X3800h... (both acting as AVP ).

However, having said that, I do believe that Dirac ART brings something completely new and groundbreaking to the table - and currently D&M are the only relatively affordable platform for it.

I'm saying this as an Onkyo/Integra user... and I am giving PAC a few months to get with the Dirac bandwagon.... if they don't then I will be jumping ship to D&M.

And yes, I feel that if ART can deliver on what it promises (and most of the ART reports say it does!) - then it will be the biggest audible upgrade to my system in years... making it great value.

So in my value calculations I have to factor in the AVR/AVP and the Dirac Licences...

I never said I could, they sound the same, Anthem however anyone should be able to clearly hear the sound quality difference for those interested just go listen to one don't take my word for it.

 

[Newman]

Denon A1H has the exact same number of channels as the Marantz AV10 Processor… and has 15 channels of amplification.

Thanks. That must have been announced after the AV10, because I checked at the time.

It is also priced less than the Marantz AV10.

But he said "and is about half the cost".

 

[Everett T]

L

I never said I could, they sound the same, Anthem however anyone should be able to clearly hear the sound quality difference for those interested just go listen to one don't take my word for it.

I'll bite again, what are those differences, how and where do they occur? I understand people may prefer one RC over another but when you go "audition" electronics at a Brick and Mortar location, they're, almost, never engaging room correction and never level matched. If listening to an immersive audio format, yes people have heard differences between a $1-2k unit versus an $8k unit, but that is the DSP chip.

I believe you when you say you can hear a difference but I'm just wondering how much of it is your sight vs your hearing?

 

[dlaloum]

Thanks. That must have been announced after the AV10, because I checked at the time.

But he said "and is about half the cost".

Over here (Australia) the A1H is marginally cheaper than the AV10 - but with the AV10 you still need to purchase the amps - if you include the AMP10, then it is almost double the price. (all at MSRP... not negotiated street price)

The delta between Marantz and Denon is usually a lot less in Europe - so this may all depend on your region.

 

[dlaloum]

No, it's Denon/Marantz's issue for not adding it. It's not a part of Dirac and probably never will be.

Agreed, a Perceptual Loudness EQ feature (which is what DEQ is) should be standard in any AVR intended for domestic use...
Late at night use, when parts of the household are already asleep, that kind of feature becomes invaluable!

 

[hwest]

L

I'll bite again, what are those differences, how and where do they occur? I understand people may prefer one RC over another but when you go "audition" electronics at a Brick and Mortar location, they're, almost, never engaging room correction and never level matched. If listening to an immersive audio format, yes people have heard differences between a $1-2k unit versus an $8k unit, but that is the DSP chip.

I believe you when you say you can hear a difference but I'm just wondering how much of it is your sight vs your hearing?

I don't test that way, I test various units in house, same speakers same room same cables. Typically if you go to a dealer that has that type of setup where you can switch between brands and in the baseline you'll hear the difference, it's not always perfect but at home I can and do create scenarios where just the unit is swapped out baseline first then room correction capabilities, now that's how I would test it but that's me.

 

[hwest]

You're certainly entitled to your subjective opinion but on paper the Marantz is objectively better and as others have mentioned when in pure direct mode, most wouldn't be able to tell a difference.

If you can "hear" electronics typically there is a problem.

That's the problem with just looking at numbers, it doesn't tell the whole story perfect curves don't equate to great sound we all know that.