Marantz AV10 AV Processor Review

[GSM58]

The test results were impressive and in my opinion it is as good as anything currently available, based on objective data.
My point wasn't about sound quality performance, but in terms of practical value.

If I were to have such a 16 channel power amp, a good part of its capacity would just be sitting there, producing some heat and continue aging, without ever being use, that's all. Of course if you have surround and height speakers, and their placements that could benefit from the tremendous output capability of the AMP10, then it is a good choice as a one box solution for you.

AMP 10 is really a beast. I read the Audioholics review and was very impressed with the performance and construction of the equipment.
I agree that it's a waste if you don't use all the channels.
Maybe Marantz launches AMP 20 with fewer channels and with the same quality.
Only time will tell.
I've never built a separate system due to rack space constraints, but if that weren't the case, I'd definitely have the Marantz.

 

[dlaloum]

Have a look into the link ban25 provided (thanks btw!).
I would say we stick with ATMOS sources, nobody believes any more that other sound formats will take over (or?)

Front wides are most of the time simply not used. Or at least only occasional with some objects.
I switched from 2 rear speakers to 4, even as they are too narrow and not perfectly placed - and it was clear a benefit! There are often 4 back surround speakers coded in the Atmos stream.
Height speakers ... looks like the industry is divided. A lot of titles only have 2 height channels active but there are also plenty with 4. 2 height speakers give already a pretty good sense of height and "sound sphere" - for sure way better as non.

So I would rate - 5.1.0 -> 7.1.0 or 5.1.2 -> 7.1.2. From there it depends what your room provides on space.

Most of the materials I watch, are either 2 channel, or 5.1 - only a few of the most recent are Atmos...

So my primary concern is the ability to decode / matrix a 5.1 channel "traditional" movie track, into an optimum enveloping sound field...

Dolby Surround - certainly in its professional versions - does just that.... takes a 5.1 soundtrack and expands it to however many channels the theatre (room) has available.

When it comes to Atmos, and object driven audio - again it will come down to decoding and mixing - where the speakers are and where the effect is supposed to be are seldom the same, and the quality of the mixer/decoder will drive the results.... in a psycho acoustic sense, we are most sensitive to positioning/location queues in front of us in a wide arc.... hence anything that improves that front to side sound field has the potential to provide greater benefits than things to the rear....

However, the powers that be at Dolby, appear to already have decided that the front wide marketplace (or people with an interest in that configuration), is too small to bother with.... so this is mostly a pointless discussion. (yeah, one I am guilty of starting)

It would be nice to see AVR's provide that as an option - but I doubt it will happen. (outside the rarified atmosphere of Trinnov / StormAudio.... was hoping the flagship D&M models might have it too)

 

[stereosean]

AV10 Audyssey downsampling?
Does anybody know what sample rate Audyssey down samples content on the AV10 when using Audyssey? Does Dirac operate at a higher sampling rate? I bought one of the “rectified” from Marantz. Sounds better when compared to other units but still wondering if it is worth the cost. I have 30 days. I can hear the difference between 48hz, 96, 192 on SOME recordings. It just get clearer on my system.

 

[peng]

AV10 Audyssey downsampling?

Yes

Does anybody know what sample rate Audyssey down samples content on the AV10 when using Audyssey?

It's not Audyssey, it's Marantz who decided to downsample to 48 kHz, obciously for their valid reasons.

Does Dirac operate at a higher sampling rate? I bought one of the “rectified” from Marantz. Sounds better when compared to other units but still wondering if it is worth the cost. I have 30 days. I can hear the difference between 48hz, 96, 192 on SOME recordings. It just get clearer on my system.

Did you do your listening tests that followed some double blind test protocol?

 

[Oddball]

I don't think this is downsampling - the content is 48khz to start with. Atmos mixes are hit and miss. Sometimes it might be better to force the Atmos into 5.1 and use the upmix to get to your channel count. That will often involve a lower bit rate on the streaming services but still might present better.

 

[peng]

I don't think this is downsampling - the content is 48khz to start with. Atmos mixes are hit and miss. Sometimes it might be better to force the Atmos into 5.1 and use the upmix to get to your channel count. That will often involve a lower bit rate on the streaming services but still might present better.

That's true, but I assume he referred to > 48 kHz contents, that will be downsampled if Audyssey is in use.

 

[IamJF]

I can hear the difference between 48hz, 96, 192 on SOME recordings. It just get clearer on my system.

Are this really the SAME recordings? It's quite possible they did some extra "high end" versions during mastering for 192k or some "mainstream version" for 48k as they do a different mastering for LP.
To get 100% sure if you hear a difference make a downsampled version of your 192kHz file and compare these. Have an other person play the tracks and switch fast, maybe pick a significant part (where it's easiest to hear) and just play that.
When you have a significant hit rate in such a scenario you can think about getting your whole setup ready for high res playback.

 

[peng]

Are this really the SAME recordings? It's quite possible they did some extra "high end" versions during mastering for 192k or some "mainstream version" for 48k as they do a different mastering for LP.
To get 100% sure if you hear a difference make a downsampled version of your 192kHz file and compare these. Have an other person play the tracks and switch fast, maybe pick a significant part (where it's easiest to hear) and just play that.
When you have a significant hit rate in such a scenario you can think about getting your whole setup ready for high res playback.

My guess is, there are more >48 kHz (that is, 88.1, 96, 192 kHz) contents that are made from masters that have better recording/mastering quality so as you alluded to, if the OP did use contents of different recording/mastering quality then he might just ended up comparing recording/mastering quality and not really the sampling rate as such.

Aside from that, it is easy to hear better sound quality, if the listener is not doing controlled blind listening tests. There is just no evidence sampling rate above 48 kHz would have audible effects on all else being equal basis, but unfortunately, all else tend to be not equal when people are doing such comparison listening, for various reasons.

 

[TheAVInsider]

Remember who told you first.

 

[TheAVInsider]

AV 20 AV Preamplifier
Reference 13.4 Channel Balanced AV Preamplifier with Dolby Atmos, DTS:X Pro, AURO-3D, IMAX Enhanced and 8K Ultra HD, and HEOS Built-in streaming
AV 20 is a reference-level AV preamplifier.

▪Detailed and immersive sound transforms your home theater
▪13.4-channel output allows a variety of speaker layouts such as 7.4.6
▪Decodes Dolby Atmos, DTS:, IMAX Enhanced audio and AURO-3D
▪Acoustic room tuning with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and optional Dirac Live
▪Seven HDMI inputs (all 8K) and three outputs for highest resolution video
▪Sound Master tuned for warm, rich and detailed Marantz sound
▪High-quality HD on-screen interface makes setup intuitive
▪Balanced and RCA outputs for external power amplifiers
▪Elegant design matches beautiful sound
▪Optimized HDAM-SA3 for fast response and low distortion

AMP 20 12-Channel Power Amplifier

Reference 12-Channel 200-watt-per-channel power amplifier.
Pair with AV 20 to create an elite-level home theater.
Marantz HDAM, Current Feedback Amplification, and balanced line level input.
▪Detailed and immersive sound transforms your home theater
▪200 watts per channel into 8 ohms / 400 watts per channel into 4 ohms
▪12 channels powers large home theaters
▪Bi-amp mode drives high- and low-frequency sections of loudspeakers independently
▪BTL Mode (Bridge mode) combines two channels into a single
400-watt per channel into 8 ohms
▪Perfect match for Marantz AV 20 preamplifier
▪Balanced XLR input is ideal for reducing input noise
▪Porthole with analog meter measures output offts ampits cast a warm low on the front surface
▪Elegant design matches rich, warm sound

 

[theBruce]

AV 20 AV Preamplifier
Reference 13.4 Channel Balanced AV Preamplifier with Dolby Atmos, DTS:X Pro, AURO-3D, IMAX Enhanced and 8K Ultra HD, and HEOS Built-in streaming
AV 20 is a reference-level AV preamplifier.

▪Detailed and immersive sound transforms your home theater
▪13.4-channel output allows a variety of speaker layouts such as 7.4.6
▪Decodes Dolby Atmos, DTS:, IMAX Enhanced audio and AURO-3D
▪Acoustic room tuning with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and optional Dirac Live
▪Seven HDMI inputs (all 8K) and three outputs for highest resolution video
▪Sound Master tuned for warm, rich and detailed Marantz sound
▪High-quality HD on-screen interface makes setup intuitive
▪Balanced and RCA outputs for external power amplifiers
▪Elegant design matches beautiful sound
▪Optimized HDAM-SA3 for fast response and low distortion

Rough idea on pricing for the AV 20 AV Preamplifier and release date?

I know tariffs are playing havoc right now, hence why I wrote rough.

 

[theBruce]

Also, found this-

https://manuals.plus/marantz/av-20-av-preamplifier-manual

 

[Oddball]

My guess is, there are more >48 kHz (that is, 88.1, 96, 192 kHz) contents that are made from masters that have better recording/mastering quality so as you alluded to, if the OP did use contents of different recording/mastering quality then he might just ended up comparing recording/mastering quality and not really the sampling rate as such.

Aside from that, it is easy to hear better sound quality, if the listener is not doing controlled blind listening tests. There is just no evidence sampling rate above 48 kHz would have audible effects on all else being equal basis, but unfortunately, all else tend to be not equal when people are doing such comparison listening, for various reasons.

The way I understand it there is a master track that was crated at the recording studio. Then there might be different offsprings, as it was noted, from the same master at different bit rates. How this was done is not very transparent, thus it will remain a mystery to most. Having exactly the same track mastered at 48khz vs 96khz would likely not be audible.

The bit-rate of the 48khz signal is of interest though. That is where the streaming content falls short of the disc content in a meaningful way.

 

[Oddball]

AV 20 AV Preamplifier
Reference 13.4 Channel Balanced AV Preamplifier with Dolby Atmos, DTS:X Pro, AURO-3D, IMAX Enhanced and 8K Ultra HD, and HEOS Built-in streaming
AV 20 is a reference-level AV preamplifier.

▪Detailed and immersive sound transforms your home theater
▪13.4-channel output allows a variety of speaker layouts such as 7.4.6
▪Decodes Dolby Atmos, DTS:, IMAX Enhanced audio and AURO-3D
▪Acoustic room tuning with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and optional Dirac Live
▪Seven HDMI inputs (all 8K) and three outputs for highest resolution video
▪Sound Master tuned for warm, rich and detailed Marantz sound
▪High-quality HD on-screen interface makes setup intuitive
▪Balanced and RCA outputs for external power amplifiers
▪Elegant design matches beautiful sound
▪Optimized HDAM-SA3 for fast response and low distortion

AMP 20 12-Channel Power Amplifier

Reference 12-Channel 200-watt-per-channel power amplifier.
Pair with AV 20 to create an elite-level home theater.
Marantz HDAM, Current Feedback Amplification, and balanced line level input.
▪Detailed and immersive sound transforms your home theater
▪200 watts per channel into 8 ohms / 400 watts per channel into 4 ohms
▪12 channels powers large home theaters
▪Bi-amp mode drives high- and low-frequency sections of loudspeakers independently
▪BTL Mode (Bridge mode) combines two channels into a single
400-watt per channel into 8 ohms
▪Perfect match for Marantz AV 20 preamplifier
▪Balanced XLR input is ideal for reducing input noise
▪Porthole with analog meter measures output offts ampits cast a warm low on the front surface
▪Elegant design matches rich, warm sound

Now this is the full monty . Cudos to Marantz, they did it extremely well. Looks as good as it probably sounds .

 

[peng]

The way I understand it there is a master track that was crated at the recording studio. Then there might be different offsprings, as it was noted, from the same master at different bit rates. How this was done is not very transparent, thus it will remain a mystery to most. Having exactly the same track mastered at 48khz vs 96khz would likely not be audible.

The bit-rate of the 48khz signal is of interest though. That is where the streaming content falls short of the disc content in a meaningful way.

I believe recording/mastering at higher than 48 kHz is a good idea, but playback at higher than 48 kHz is not necessary, though likely wouldn’t hurt.

 

[Newman]

Remember who told you first.
View attachment 448407

Then you get to start its own thread!

 

[Vacceo]

AV 20 AV Preamplifier
Reference 13.4 Channel Balanced AV Preamplifier with Dolby Atmos, DTS:X Pro, AURO-3D, IMAX Enhanced and 8K Ultra HD, and HEOS Built-in streaming
AV 20 is a reference-level AV preamplifier.

▪Detailed and immersive sound transforms your home theater
▪13.4-channel output allows a variety of speaker layouts such as 7.4.6
▪Decodes Dolby Atmos, DTS:, IMAX Enhanced audio and AURO-3D
▪Acoustic room tuning with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and optional Dirac Live
▪Seven HDMI inputs (all 8K) and three outputs for highest resolution video
▪Sound Master tuned for warm, rich and detailed Marantz sound
▪High-quality HD on-screen interface makes setup intuitive
▪Balanced and RCA outputs for external power amplifiers
▪Elegant design matches beautiful sound
▪Optimized HDAM-SA3 for fast response and low distortion

AMP 20 12-Channel Power Amplifier

Reference 12-Channel 200-watt-per-channel power amplifier.
Pair with AV 20 to create an elite-level home theater.
Marantz HDAM, Current Feedback Amplification, and balanced line level input.
▪Detailed and immersive sound transforms your home theater
▪200 watts per channel into 8 ohms / 400 watts per channel into 4 ohms
▪12 channels powers large home theaters
▪Bi-amp mode drives high- and low-frequency sections of loudspeakers independently
▪BTL Mode (Bridge mode) combines two channels into a single
400-watt per channel into 8 ohms
▪Perfect match for Marantz AV 20 preamplifier
▪Balanced XLR input is ideal for reducing input noise
▪Porthole with analog meter measures output offts ampits cast a warm low on the front surface
▪Elegant design matches rich, warm sound

So in essence, same devices as the AV10/Amp10 but with less channels, right? Hopefully the next device will be a transport.

And of course, thanks a lot for the preview!

 

[Oddball]

Just noticed - 13.4 channel processor and 12 channel amp?

 

[Oddball]

Honestly, think it is time for D&M to get a firmer hand on the helm which will hopefully happen with the pending sale of their business. They continue to be doing questionable things and this is one of the examples. It would be all possible if they actually managed to turn a buck doing what they were doing, but apparently they don't. So it just does not work in the world of dollars and cents.

Not only that AV-10 and AV-20 are distinguished only by 2 channels, but then you get odd amp that fits more with AV-30 than AV-20. Go figure. D&M setup is way too granular and similar to be economically effective. But obviously nobody seems to care as they continue to roll out products that are kissing cousins to the one below or above in the line up.

At the same time, D&M are completely disregarding and looks like dissembling their affiliate Audyssey, despite the fact that this just might be their best wildcard in the deck. And most people would like to see x900H series, and not derivatives of old and gold AV-10.

 

[alvigg]

My Buckeye Amps work extremely well for my AV10 7.4.6 setup.