Sorry for a old reply, but why would the AV10 be less susceptible to ground loops? As someone with a Marantz AV7706 which suffers from massive ground loop hum (connected via XLR to Hypex NC502MP based amplifiers) unless i ground-lift my PC this is very interesting to me!
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Marantz AV10 AV Processor Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Hello,
i own a new AV10 and I have image disturbances only when I select source heos. In all other sources ist all right. 4k/50p 4:2:2 is no problem. I changed HDMI cable and TV. I reset to factory default. When I restart AV10, in most cases the image (i.e radio image or setup 1080/50/ is ok, when i change to other sources and back to heos, the image disturbances come back.
Is there a general problem known with the latest firmware. Otherwise I have to change the AV10 with my dealer
i own a new AV10 and I have image disturbances only when I select source heos. In all other sources ist all right. 4k/50p 4:2:2 is no problem. I changed HDMI cable and TV. I reset to factory default. When I restart AV10, in most cases the image (i.e radio image or setup 1080/50/ is ok, when i change to other sources and back to heos, the image disturbances come back.
Is there a general problem known with the latest firmware. Otherwise I have to change the AV10 with my dealer
Has been exchanged and it works fine
Albert Dagger
Member
There’s an AV10 thread on AVS Forum with many AV10 owners. I’m sure that’s the best place to ask for these sort of issues as there might be someone else experiencing the same thing. Hopefully the new unit is fine but keep an eye on that thread, pretty useful.
Cheers
The AV7705's and at least the early AV7706's were the same products and measure the same. Wait for an AV 20 if one ever appears or purchase an AV 10 which is a great product.
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This appears to be the patent for DLBC as implemented.
Dirac Live Bass Management and Audyssey are clear steps down from Dirac Live Bass Control IMO. None of these companies are very open, nor would I expect them to be, about how their products actually work as far as actual math, filter lengths, etc.
It isn't clear to me which of Dirac's patents covers ARC.
I have no idea, all I can say is that I have run Anthem ARC's bass/phase optimization many times, no matter how hard I tried, it could not come close to the performance of DLBC. To me, ARC Genesis's phase optimization is not even as effective as Audyssey's SubEQ HT overall. On the other hand, that one click on the "calculate" button on DLBC worked like magic every time. I am sure (based on published info/white paper etc.), in time, Dirac Live's ART will best them all but we'll have to wait until the product is fully matured/debugged and have enough measurements posted by reviewers and users.
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To expand on the previous post on what appears to be the patent that covers what DLBC does.
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/c2/b5/41/ae5fb686d4b422/US11800309.pdf
Impulse response is used to align the various speakers. Looking at the results of actual DLBC it appears that the very beginning of the impulse responses are aligned.
There is clearly a step with an emphasis on using all-pass filters to provide frequency and phase correct crossovers between subs and higher range speakers.
There is also a description of the optimization that is used for multi-subwoofer installations, that is, what happens when the "calculate" button is clicked.
The factor(s) that are optimized, which appear to be the variation between each of the measurement points, is described, as is the range of the factor. The actual equations for calculating the value of the factor are not included. This process appears to have a goal of optimizing the variation in response at all the measurement positions.
The variables that are varied in the optimization, such as delay, level, and filters are described, as is how the range of settings within those items are set. For example, the limits and likely the steps of the variation of the Q of a potential filter within the optimization are set. The power of modern PC's allows this optimization to be done quite quickly.
To get a much better understanding of the process it would be good to read the patent. Under the boilerplate there is useful insight into the process. My explanation leaves a lot to be desired.
Did you make actual REW measurements of the final results at the listening seat of all three or was this a subjective impressions ?
I can understand why DLBC works for you, as it works for so many others. But just a side question - with Salon 2 Revels, did you think or try of running them full range (obviously outside of DLBC)?
Peng has posted many of his REWs - but honestly that won't tell you the full story. Pretty graph is a pretty graph. It looks immaculate, but a bit less pretty graph might actually sound better (to some). And than this is obviously content dependent unless you are all in the reference vs preference. Reference graph might sound "thin" for some titles and "thicker" for others. If you just follow the creator's intent, then you do get that with immaculate response. But if you follow your preference, you might need to adjust accordingly.
I am not so brave to share my graphs as that just leads into requests for sharing more graphs. Compression, waterfall, good knows what else. And it quickly gets into holly inquisition and defending your audiophile life. Sorry but not here to participate in that - would rather be called other names. But on the other hand, I am not claiming that I am doing anything better than the others - just more to my taste that is obviously subjective and questionable.
I've had the Salon 2's for over 10 years. I've run them about every way you can imagine. Even for home theater, running a stereo pair of Salon 2's as the only speakers would provide a very good experience. I ran this way for a while soon after purchasing the Salon 2's.
Salon 2's just disappear. They take whatever is thrown at them. While the bass is excellent with extension below 20Hz, and the bottom exiting port allows installation flexibility, the remainder of the audio spectrum is also handled well. Salon 2 is a four-way system with quality drivers and steep, well executed crossovers mounted in a low diffraction, very solid enclosure. Revel put everything they knew about loudspeaker design into the Salon 2.
You didn't ask, but anyway...
That said, I like to experiment with different equipment and setups even when the current setup is working well. I also like to understand how selected things work, so while I consider myself a hobbyist, I do investigate subjects of interest in depth. I have a media room that provides sort of a blank canvas.
The media room has double 2x6 insulted walls with double 5/8-inch drywall. The idea was to keep the sound in the room and deal with it there, as opposed to using more flexible walls with unknown and unchangeable characteristics once built, to be part of the system. There is a carpeted floor over 1 1/16" plywood set on flat 2x4's over concrete. This seemed like a good idea, although I can't justify it. 14x20-amp circuits with #10 Romex from a subpanel.
When I designed and built the house 15-years ago, I was my own general contractor so none of this cost much extra. I'd never built a house before, but it isn't that tough. The whole house has 2x6 insulated exterior and interior walls including the garage. The house is very quiet with a minimum of stored energy.
I rewed them, and posted the results, let me know if you want to see but can't find them. Am out at the moment but can repost them later.
Very generous answer and much appreciated.
But then not really sure if DLBC vs Audy was addressed - and no worries graphs not required at least on my part. Dirac will require a crossover while in Audy you could have them roam free with different bass management solutions in the back.
I did not prefer DLBC as it required crossovers as opposed to perhaps more complex solutions that would allow for full extension of the speakers and decent integration of the subs. Timing alignment with DLBC is important to a lots of people, but eventually is very easy to get done with Audy and REW.
But then not really sure if DLBC vs Audy was addressed - and no worries graphs not required at least on my part. Dirac will require a crossover while in Audy you could have them roam free with different bass management solutions in the back.
I did not prefer DLBC as it required crossovers as opposed to perhaps more complex solutions that would allow for full extension of the speakers and decent integration of the subs. Timing alignment with DLBC is important to a lots of people, but eventually is very easy to get done with Audy and REW.
I need to remeasure my system, when I had the lightning strike here I lost all the saved data
in my Windows OS partition
NP, and only if you have saved a stock baseline run of the 3 systems results from their "one click" fully automated results, 500hz and below.
It's only a matter of curiosity as to which automated program comes out with the best results for Joe Sixpack who goes no further than that.
Not looking for anyones bragging rights here, the world of DRC is huge and only just begins with the 3 basic auto-tune programs.
After measuring with REW and then going back in and tweaking my curves with the $20 Audyssey Editor app, I got with I thought
was an excellent result from my 2 SVS SB2000 subs. The original auto-generated curve left a lot to be desired.
I lost my entire laptop as my daughter was using in unwisely and it fell from a high floor. Was devastated at first but then realised that most of what was important in there is still present.
While Peng might have its own views, the best one click solution is DLBC. Nothing really comes close to it. But then digging deeper, it is a limited crossover based system. If you want to explore Audy, then $200 MultiEQ-X app is the answer. You will be able to perfect your curves and response within 1dB, albeit potentially with multiple REW measurement iterations.
ARC is not my forte but understand that it is pretty good based on Peng’s feedback.
There are other advanced systems like Trinnov or Lyngdorf to consider.
While Peng might have its own views, the best one click solution is DLBC. Nothing really comes close to it. But then digging deeper, it is a limited crossover based system. If you want to explore Audy, then $200 MultiEQ-X app is the answer. You will be able to perfect your curves and response within 1dB, albeit potentially with multiple REW measurement iterations.
ARC is not my forte but understand that it is pretty good based on Peng’s feedback.
There are other advanced systems like Trinnov or Lyngdorf to consider.
Still just the beginning, there's things like Accurate Sound and others with very steep learning curves.
Or you could hire Mitch Barnett's to pro calibrate your room.
Digital Room Calibration Services, Convolver, Headphone Filtersets
We provide digital room calibration for stereo and multichannel. Software provider of audio convolver, plugin host, and headphone filtersets.
accuratesound.ca
Digital Room Correction (DRC) Calibration - Accurate Sound
Providing Digital Room Correction (DRC) calibration worldwide to reproduce studio-quality sound in stereo and multichannel systems.
accuratesound.ca
Maybe, but folks tend to discount Audyssey + Editor way too fast. About which Amir posted (his bolding, not mine)
"Anyway, I told it to upload the data to the AVR which took a bit. Once there, the results were superb! The sound out of my system was now reference quality, pinning me down to my seat listening to track after track from my "audiophile" playlist. Room modes were gone and the deep, floor shaking bass that I expect from my Salon 2 speakers were back with the new target curve. Detail was to die for. Bass was clean. On and on."
Audyssey Room EQ Review
This is a review and detailed measurements of the Audyssey Room Equalization. Audyssey is standard technology in a number of Audio/Video Receivers such as the Denon AVR-X3600H I recently reviewed. The standard version in the AVR is mostly all or nothing so I downloaded the Marantz/Denon...
www.audiosciencereview.com
Like with so many other things, it's often the nut behind the wheel that's most important.
Well used to be in Cal but that was way back. And certainly not going to fly the people into mid Europe for that. And not sure what I would be paying them for - to REW and tell me what curves I should use? I have done literally all the curves and spent so much time REWing that by now can rest in peace.Still just the beginning, there's things like Accurate Sound and others with very steep learning curves.
Or you could hire Mitch Barnett's to pro calibrate your room.
Digital Room Calibration Services, Convolver, Headphone Filtersets
We provide digital room calibration for stereo and multichannel. Software provider of audio convolver, plugin host, and headphone filtersets.Digital Room Correction (DRC) Calibration - Accurate Sound
Providing Digital Room Correction (DRC) calibration worldwide to reproduce studio-quality sound in stereo and multichannel systems.
Maybe, but folks tend to discount Audyssey + Editor way too fast. About which Amir posted (his bolding, not mine)
"Anyway, I told it to upload the data to the AVR which took a bit. Once there, the results were superb! The sound out of my system was now reference quality, pinning me down to my seat listening to track after track from my "audiophile" playlist. Room modes were gone and the deep, floor shaking bass that I expect from my Salon 2 speakers were back with the new target curve. Detail was to die for. Bass was clean. On and on."
Audyssey Room EQ Review
This is a review and detailed measurements of the Audyssey Room Equalization. Audyssey is standard technology in a number of Audio/Video Receivers such as the Denon AVR-X3600H I recently reviewed. The standard version in the AVR is mostly all or nothing so I downloaded the Marantz/Denon...
Like with so many other things, it's often the nut behind the wheel that's most important.
I could tell the whole story about Audyssey, but to cut it short, it is really the EQ-X that will cut it if your requirements are high. There are occasions where app will do, but if you are a control freak, or have high requirements as pushing speakers to their limits, that will not do.
And BTW, Audy, even EQ-X does not come even close to aligning my subs between themselves and even further away to aligning it with mains. But I don’t see that as significant issue as simple REW alignment and adjustment to distance or subs DSP phase will do. Almost like taking a candy from a baby kind of thing.
I am not sure if this is what you want to see, but I went back to my graphs inventory and put those "stock baseline runs", assuming you meant the as found post calibration runs with no manual tweaks and I limit the range to 500 Hz as requested.
As noted, the DL and DLBC curves were with one sub, that is L ch with sub1. (that's because with the Anthem, I could not get the DLBC PC standalone version to map 2.2 properly., their channel mapping seems weird.., even tried the multichannel version and use the center channel for sub2, it still didn't work properly).
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I have to agree, that pretty graphs won't tell the full story... Regardless, I put little value in subjective measurements, as you probably noticed by now.
I rely almost (but not 100%) solely on specifications and objective reviews. Even if people demonstrated they could actually hear differences as claimed in DBT, and picked their preferred "sound", it would not mean much to me for the obvious reason (that it is subjective).Similar threads
