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Marantz AV10 AV Processor Review

Rate This AV Processor:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 6 1.8%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 24 7.1%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 87 25.8%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 220 65.3%

  • Total voters
    337
Totally agree. It ART works as advertised, then it's unmatched. However, I haven't seen many real-world measurements coming out of the Storm forums.

Also, I like MultiEQ-X over Dirac Live. So that should say something.
The most comprehensive presentation of Dirac ART was by the german integrator 'hollywoodzuhause' :

In this show room he has a 7.1.2 setup with a 32 subwoofer front bass array and two rear subs. I think the front and rear wall also have really thick absorption.
Because of a elaborate setup like this he already gets really good results with bass control but what really surprised me is how much improvement ART actually provides on top of it.
I screenshotted the two waterfall plots that he measured. The bass with ART looks incredibly flat and there is barely any reverberation left.

Bass Control:


bc.png



ART:

art.png
 
However, I haven't seen many real-world measurements coming out of the Storm forums.
Wow, welcome to the dark side! So good to know that you finally seem to be paying more attention to measurements than going mainly by hearsay from people who hear with not only ears, but also eyes and brains; and then your own ears, eyes, and brains that had been conditioned/biased by those external factors.;):D
 
No, not on the same level as ART can do.

You can get rid of nulls and reduce major resonances with multi sub but you cannot drastically reduce RT60 in the whole frequency range below 150Hz the same way ART does it.

I‘ve seen several measurements of ART now and even in a custom home theatre with a single bass array and meters worth of absorption depth, Dirac ART still provides massive improvements.
This post reads like marketing blurb.

Be aware that when any maker brings a new product feature to market, its importance and effect is vastly exaggerated.

And if there is a measure that this product scores better on by a good margin, then the importance and audibility of that measure is vastly exaggerated.

Then the prone-to-overexcitement first-adopters get their hands on said product and huge levels of audible improvement are reported, driven by confirmation bias of course. A legend is born. Game Changer.

Soon, even the middle-adopters are wetting themselves in excitement at said product filtering down to their market segment. "I won't buy any product without this feature." "I can't wait for this feature to appear in my market segment."

Man, such easy money for the makers.

I prefer to be evidence-driven. All I am, sincerely, pressing for, is quality experimental evidence that Dirac ART is clearly perceptually preferred to an expert implementation of multiple subwoofers plus EQ up to the transition frequency, in a sensibly furnished or modestly treated home audio room. Without that, it's just an ambit claim and a pretty graph. Where is the experimental evidence that reducing decay times in the bass, beyond what can be done with passive multi-sub-and-EQ techniques, is audibly preferred in domestic rooms? Remember, there is a threshold of audibility of decay times, aka "enough is enough", and further improvements are pointless, except to the maker who sells them.

Hence, until persuaded otherwise with quality evidence, I am going to recommend that people treat Dirac ART as, at best, a time-saver. Other than time saved, it looks like a solution in search of a problem, aka marketing gold.
 
Wow, welcome to the dark side! So good to know that you finally seem to be paying more attention to measurements than going mainly by hearsay from people who hear with not only ears, but also eyes and brains; and then your own ears, eyes, and brains that had been conditioned/biased by those external factors.;):D
Ha! I know it’s a highly complex and measurable effect. I’m a huge believer in cancellation for better sound quality.

Ever since I got my Polk L800’s. Crosstalk cancellation is incredibly effective. I think cancelation of decay waves with surrounds or other speakers is theoretically possible. I just need to see it “consistently” in practice.

I don’t want to be running Dirac 50 times before I can get a good result. A few makes sense but I don’t want it to be a lottery.
 
@Newman That's the point - the actual results from Lars in the video show that it is working in real life very good! Better as I would expect and on a different level what actual measurement systems can do. That actually IS game changeing cause now a normal user can do this optimisation with just 2-4 additional subwoofers at the back of the room and achieve a level of performance you can't with normal multi sub systems!
And Lars normally installs double bass arrays - he for sure has no financial interest in showing a system which prevents him from selling more subwoofers ;-) so I trust his results.
 
Sorry but that video is not intelligible to me. So I cannot verify what you say it proves.
 
Sorry but that video is not intelligible to me. So I cannot verify what you say it proves.
That’s why I explained what his setup is and attached waterfall plots that show the difference between multisub/Bass control and ART.
 
Oh, I already dealt with that.
 
Jup - that's the exciting part. This speaker system is already very good without ART! But ART was able to bring it to a new level of performance not possible with the other measurement systems.

I'm not quickly excited from these automatic measurement systems - most of them don't bring a lot of benefit. In real use Dirac showed to be useful. Neumann MA1 delivers even better results in my opinion. But Dirac ART seem to take the next step I didn't thought would be possible with an automated measurement system. And the setup is way easier to realise as Trinnovs.

So let's wait if they implement it in this preamp and the other AV amps with 4 sub outputs.
 
Jup - that's the exciting part. This speaker system is already very good without ART! But ART was able to bring it to a new level of performance not possible with the other measurement systems.

I'm not quickly excited from these automatic measurement systems - most of them don't bring a lot of benefit. In real use Dirac showed to be useful. Neumann MA1 delivers even better results in my opinion. But Dirac ART seem to take the next step I didn't thought would be possible with an automated measurement system. And the setup is way easier to realise as Trinnovs.

So let's wait if they implement it in this preamp and the other AV amps with 4 sub outputs.
I have some spare subs that I’ll dedicate to cancelation. Some SVS micros. They can’t can’t loud under 40Hz but they can go there at lower volumes.

Same with my mains. My mains without an XO, I can’t get a flat response with both LFE and Large (no LfE), they are ported tuned to 23Hz and get be used for cancellation duty as well
 
Does this 4 sub array help with the sweet spot or is it a way to get rid of nodes in the whole room?
 
If you have a double bass array (4-6 woofers in the front, 4-6 in the back) you get rid of nodes in the whole room. In THEORY ART should be able to do the DBA configuration by itslef?
With some different layout and ART you should be good in the listening area but not the whole room.
 
I really wonder how you would configure a DBA with ART.

Should the front and rear array be configured as one entire channel each or should every single subwoofer be dealt with seperately (which would require a Storm processor due to many channels)?
 
That is a lot of subwoofers!
The wikipedia article on bass arrays is actually quite informative.
The amount of subwoofers you need basically depends on the room dimensions.

You get a planar wave up to a higher frequency the closer the subs are together.
A larger front wall needs more subwoofer but a normally sized front wall of ~4x2.5 meters would already work with 4 subs up to ~85Hz .
 
I would configure as 2 channels cause the array acts as one big woofer. ART should not configure them individually!
In a perfect world you would just need delay and a phase inversion ...

Number of subwoofers ... when you want to get close to reference levels ... you need a lot of subwoofers. Esp when you want to use them in closed cabinets.
12 pieces of SB34NRXL75-8 would be about 3600,-, 2 Hypex FA502 to power them about 1400,-. This is a solution for a Home Cinema room so you can build and integrate the cabinets in your design (or let build).
In a smaller room you could use just 4 per array and a way cheaper PA amp.

Of course that's some money but it's the last subwoofer you will need.
 
I would configure as 2 channels cause the array acts as one big woofer. ART should not configure them individually!
In a perfect world you would just need delay and a phase inversion ...
I would think so too but Trinnov WaveForming corrects each subwoofer independently.
While the planar wave travels through the room it gets diffracted on seats, people or other stuff so the rear array won't get a perfect planar wave that it can cancel out.

What I would probably do is using a large front arrray that sends out a planar wave and just a few rear subs that take care of really low frequencies while the rest of the frequencies (above 50Hz or so) are passively absorbed by insulation.
 
Have you ever tried to absorb a 50Hz resonance and measured the result? I did in my room, have 16cm BCA at the back wall and 20cm moveable absorber walls and additional material in between - it's not enough. The problem with resonances is - they are a resonant system, very little energy is enough to keep it going. So you would need >0,9 absorption coefficient to even start, you can simulate in REW.

Trinnov WaveForming is pretty demanding. Quickly 12 amp channels and a big expensive preamp. I'm sure it works great then but ART seems to be way more economic. That's the nice part of the system - it should be able to do an automated optimisation of the chanceling and be able to set up a DBA. But needs to be proven in a real installation.
 
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