Marantz AV10 AV Processor Review

[Newman]

@Amir - I don't understand: "As you see in both graphs, optimal output is more or less what you see in the dashboard. So don't go getting a very low gain amplifier thinking you are coming out ahead. Likely a medium gain amp is the best combination."

I think Amir is saying that you don't want to use the AV10 in its 4V-11V output range under the impression that higher output gives higher SNR.

 

[michaelahess]

And imagine how many they would ship if they just gave it away

Whenever there is an avr review the comments go why they don’t spend a bit more to make it SOTA. Here it is and then the comments go why it’s not cheaper

This price is not commiserate with it's quality. The amazing performance shown with sub 100 dollar devices proves this.

AVR's are an amazing thing from a manufacturing standpoint. The extreme low cost that's been perfected in mass producing these, has nothing to do with the board layout and quality of components.

Adding higher quality components costs pennies on the dollar. Not hundreds on the dollar. And the R and D is obviously already there.

This is, as usual, a "high value" product released at a very high price to make rich folks feel special. The manufacturers aren't idiots. This breeds desire in those less wealthy. Then human nature comes in, so the "good name" of the manufacturer based on this human desire to achieve that of those "above" oneself (look at fast fashion) drives purchases of their lower end gear.

To call this anything but over priced is too ignore the game manufacturers play to make a fatter profit.

 

[michaelahess]

Compared to what? For me, it is a nice compromise from the Trinnov and Storm AVPs I was shopping. Anthem's AVM 90 is more and in my opinion, offers less. (Marantz now offers both Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 and Dirac Live and soon, DLBC. Gene and Matt Poes did a YouTube video detailing that Audyssey actually did BETTER than Dirac in the AV-10. Worth a look.) Now that we have two excellent bench tests (Gene's and Amir's) combined with Marantz/Denon's reliability, I think this is a great price point. If you are looking for similar but cheaper, the Monolith HTP-1 is a solid performer but not without growing pains early on. I owned an Emotiva XMC-1 that worked good... WHEN IT WORKED. When it didn't or got "stuck" it was a real pain. Forget the fact that the family doesn't tolerate resetting and reboots when all they want is Netflix. My previous Marantz 8805a and now my Denon's AVR 4700H just WORK. No fuss.

You obviously have enough money to not need to understand why this is too expensive for what it is. Literally fell in the sales trap my friend.

 

[Galliardist]

This price is not commiserate with it's quality. The amazing performance shown with sub 100 dollar devices proves this..

Overpriced perhaps, but compared with a sub 100 dollar stereo DAC?

I dare say you’ll want a Tesla for the price of a pair of roller skates next.

 

[PJ 1]

You obviously have enough money to not need to understand why this is too expensive for what it is. Literally fell in the sales trap my friend.

Not at all. Just finishing up 23 years of Naval Service. Enlisted, not Officer. My salary is available on the web. I understood a LONG time ago the value of compound interest and instead of buying a car/motor cycle/boat, I invested in a nice home theater. Be mindful of making too many assumptions about the readers who would find value in such products. I could argue the same about whatever vehicle you drive or the location of the home you reside. Value is subjective. Claims of "over price" are objective as long as you provide factual data on pricing. To my knowledge, no one on this forum has yet provided actual pricing information from Marantz. So we are left to subjective opinions on value, which is how I lead my remark.

 

[alvigg]

aren't they $7000

 

[multisport4me]

This price is not commiserate with it's quality. The amazing performance shown with sub 100 dollar devices proves this.

AVR's are an amazing thing from a manufacturing standpoint. The extreme low cost that's been perfected in mass producing these, has nothing to do with the board layout and quality of components.

Adding higher quality components costs pennies on the dollar. Not hundreds on the dollar. And the R and D is obviously already there.

This is, as usual, a "high value" product released at a very high price to make rich folks feel special. The manufacturers aren't idiots. This breeds desire in those less wealthy. Then human nature comes in, so the "good name" of the manufacturer based on this human desire to achieve that of those "above" oneself (look at fast fashion) drives purchases of their lower end gear.

To call this anything but over priced is too ignore the game manufacturers play to make a fatter profit.

I'm sorry but I guess I missed the point of a for-profit vs. non-profit business. Isn't fatter profits ALWAYS the point of a for-profit business? I mean...if people don't buy their products, they won't be profitable or have any chance to be more profitable. And if the market demand is there and people keep buying the product, why should they discount the product? If sales slow, then sure - most companies will do cost-downs and maybe price reductions. The fact that this product is $7k and continues to list at $7k for over a year now tells us that the demand is still there for this $7k product and as a for-profit business, Marantz is going to keep making fatter profits.

See "Price Elasticity Demand" https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/priceelasticity.asp to understand how for-profit companies arrive at pricing their products. There are numerous other factors of course, but the bottom line is - there is plenty of demand for a $7k processor and Marantz has every right to continue selling at this price. The best thing you can do is speak with your wallet and hope that droves of other consumers agree with you and simply don't buy. Eventually, the company will be forced to reconsider the demand and price it accordingly to stimulate sales again (assuming their margin stack/BOM, etc. all allow for it).

 

[michaelahess]

Overpriced perhaps, but compared with a sub 100 dollar stereo DAC?

I dare say you’ll want a Tesla for the price of a pair of roller skates next.

I have a Tesla, cost about the same as a similar gas vehicle. It's easily twice the vehicle! I understand manufacturing, and values related to actual specifications. Audio is just like watches, which also upsets me.

 

[IamJF]

I hope there will be digital outputs added in the next years to such units. Just add a multipin connector and myabe even sell an expensive adapter for the few who use it.
Speaker with digital inputs are getting more common and are simplifying setup of bigger homecinema installations a lot.

 

[jhwalker]

I hope there will be digital outputs added in the next years to such units. Just add a multipin connector and myabe even sell an expensive adapter for the few who use it.
Speaker with digital inputs are getting more common and are simplifying setup of bigger homecinema installations a lot.

I'd love to see this.

I was contemplating setting up an Atmos / HT system using all active speakers - could be really cool, but not really sure the architecture of such a system. I've only ever had AVRs + supplemental amplification + passive speakers.

 

[peng]

Talk about overpriced?

Storm audio ISP core 16................$18,898
Trinnov Audio Altitude16...............$18,800 (including the mic)
NAD M17 V2i......................................$7,999 (no 8K/HDMI 2.1, only 11 channel (not including subs) processing
Anthem AVM 90.................................$7,499.99 (on sale for $6,374.99)
Arcam AV41.........................................$5,250 (on sale for $4,200)
Marantz AV10.....................................$7,000
RMC-1L.................................................$4,723

Lower cost models:
Monolith HTTP-1..............................$3,999.99
Anthem AVM70................................ $3,999.99 (on sale for $3,399.99)
Emotiva XMC-2..................................$3,689

Based on the known facts that the AV10 and AVM90 both have better than 100 dB SINAD, excellent IMD, DNR, and reference class ESS DAC chips, It seems fair to consider the AV10 is not overpriced relatively speaking. The Arcam AV41 may be the best value, it does not have the ESS reference class DAC, and will likely not measure as good as the AV10 and AVM 90 based on track record on ASR, but for $5,250 listed, $4,200 on sale price right now it is tough to beat.

The most expensive Storm and Trinnov cost a lot more, do not seem to be using reference class DACs seems pricey relatively to the other 2. The NAD almost looks ridiculous when you look at the specs, for $7,999.

 

[PJ 1]

Talk about overpriced?

Storm audio ISP core 16................$18,898
Trinnov Audio Altitude16...............$18,800 (including the mic)
NAD M17 V2i......................................$7,999 (no 8K/HDMI 2.1, only 11 channel (not including subs) processing
Anthem AVM 90.................................$7,499.99 (on sale for $6,374.99)
Arcam AV41.........................................$5,250 (on sale for $4,200)
Marantz AV10.....................................$7,000
Monolith HTTP-1..............................$3,999.99
Anthem AVM70................................ $3,999.99 (on sale for $3,399.99)

Based on the know facts that the AV10 and AVM90 both have better than 100 dB SINAD, excellent IMD, DNR, and reference class ESS DAC chips, It seems fair to consider the AV10 is not overpriced relatively speaking. The Arcam AV41 may be the best value, it does not have the ESS reference class DAC, and will likely not measure as good as the AV10 and AVM 90 based on track record on ASR, but for $5,250 listed, $4,200 on sale price right now it is tough to beat.

The most expensive Storm and Trinnov cost a lot more, do not seem to be using reference class DACs seems pricey relatively to the other 2. The NAD almost looks ridiculous when you look at the specs, for $7,999.

I was thinking the same about the NAD and its feature set. Maybe they are planning on their MDC platform and being able to swap in different modules that will have 4 subs and 8K/HDMI 2.1 or more channels?? I love the look of the NAD stuff but I feel the AV10 is the better value. I think the sleeper, if it is now stable, is the HTP-1. You get CE and FCC rating and a 5 yr warranty for $4K. Combined with their large selection of amps is in my opinion, a great deal! I'm rethinking selling those Monolith M8250xs.... Sigh.

 

[chelgrian]

I was thinking the same about the NAD and its feature set. Maybe they are planning on their MDC platform and being able to swap in different modules that will have 4 subs and 8K/HDMI 2.1 or more channels?? I love the look of the NAD stuff but I feel the AV10 is the better value. I think the sleeper, if it is now stable, is the HTP-1. You get CE and FCC rating and a 5 yr warranty for $4K. Combined with their large selection of amps is in my opinion, a great deal! I'm rethinking selling those Monolith M8250xs.... Sigh.

I doubt MDC will help NAD they made the design expensive by doing it and they have barely made use of it.

Given the costs involved in development I'd expect NAD to either exit the market, like Rotel have done, or license and improve a design from elsewhere. There are actually very few designs for AVPs around which aren't related to each other in some way due to the cost of development being so high.

The NAD has some very odd design decisions as well, that large screen on the front, you can't switch it off...

 

[ban25]

I doubt MDC will help NAD they made the design expensive by doing it and they have barely made use of it.

Given the costs involved in development I'd expect NAD to either exit the market, like Rotel have done, or license and improve a design from elsewhere. There are actually very few designs for AVPs around which aren't related to each other in some way due to the cost of development being so high.

The NAD has some very odd design decisions as well, that large screen on the front, you can't switch it off...

Agreed. Apart from the physical constraints, which likely place firm constraints on TDP for MDC add-on boards, I suspect there are also power and backplane bandwidth limitations with MDC that make it hard / impossible to design HDMI 2.1 add-on boards with 40 Gbps signaling, eARC, etc. Coupled with the vanishingly small addressable market for NAD-specific add-on boards, MDC is a recipe for a one-and-done standard.

 

[ban25]

I was thinking the same about the NAD and its feature set. Maybe they are planning on their MDC platform and being able to swap in different modules that will have 4 subs and 8K/HDMI 2.1 or more channels?? I love the look of the NAD stuff but I feel the AV10 is the better value. I think the sleeper, if it is now stable, is the HTP-1. You get CE and FCC rating and a 5 yr warranty for $4K. Combined with their large selection of amps is in my opinion, a great deal! I'm rethinking selling those Monolith M8250xs.... Sigh.

The issue with the HTP-1 as I see it is, who in 2024 has a 16-channel immersive home cinema application with outboard amplification but doesn't care about 4K120, 8K60, or eARC?

 

[Russ_L]

Talk about overpriced?

Storm audio ISP core 16................$18,898
Trinnov Audio Altitude16...............$18,800 (including the mic)
NAD M17 V2i......................................$7,999 (no 8K/HDMI 2.1, only 11 channel (not including subs) processing
Anthem AVM 90.................................$7,499.99 (on sale for $6,374.99)
Arcam AV41.........................................$5,250 (on sale for $4,200)
Marantz AV10.....................................$7,000
Monolith HTTP-1..............................$3,999.99
Anthem AVM70................................ $3,999.99 (on sale for $3,399.99)

Based on the know facts that the AV10 and AVM90 both have better than 100 dB SINAD, excellent IMD, DNR, and reference class ESS DAC chips, It seems fair to consider the AV10 is not overpriced relatively speaking. The Arcam AV41 may be the best value, it does not have the ESS reference class DAC, and will likely not measure as good as the AV10 and AVM 90 based on track record on ASR, but for $5,250 listed, $4,200 on sale price right now it is tough to beat.

The most expensive Storm and Trinnov cost a lot more, do not seem to be using reference class DACs seems pricey relatively to the other 2. The NAD almost looks ridiculous when you look at the specs, for $7,999.

You’ve left Emotiva off your very comprehensive list. In a call last week an Emotiva employee in the know told me “they expect to release their next generation (G4P) processors in January”. The pricing should be very reasonable at (approximately) 3, 4 and 5 thousand dollars for the XMC-2, RMC-1L and RMC-1. That’s direct pricing.

Russ

 

[muslhead]

You’ve left Emotiva off your very comprehensive list. In a call last week an Emotiva employee in the know told me “they expect to release their next generation (G4P) processors in January”. The pricing should be very reasonable at (approximately) 3, 4 and 5 thousand dollars for the XMC-2, RMC-1L and RMC-1. That’s direct pricing.

Russ

Did they say whether that release included working units?
If so, it would be a first

 

[Russ_L]

Did they say whether that release included working units?
If so, it would be a first

Which units in the comprehensive list above were without faults right out of the gate? Rhetorical. NONE. Currently, my XMC-2 is working flawlessly (I don’t use Dirac so can’t comment on that).

Russ

 

[Lsc]

Which units in the comprehensive list above were without faults right out of the gate? Rhetorical. NONE. Currently, my XMC-2 is working flawlessly (I don’t use Dirac so can’t comment on that).

Russ

Dirac works perfectly fine in my XMC2. I don’t like the 2 preset implementation but functionally it works great. My system finally sounds better with Dirac on for 2 channel with my subs than reference stereo with just the salons for most music material.

My XMC2 also works with no real issues either. I turn it on and turn it off and Im not battling with anything.

 

[peng]

You’ve left Emotiva off your very comprehensive list. In a call last week an Emotiva employee in the know told me “they expect to release their next generation (G4P) processors in January”. The pricing should be very reasonable at (approximately) 3, 4 and 5 thousand dollars for the XMC-2, RMC-1L and RMC-1. That’s direct pricing.

Russ

I thought about it, but I remember the RMC-1 did not measure too good on ASR, though the RMC-1L may be better. Given that a few years has past since ASR measured the RMC-1 and the XMC-1 measured okay on ASR, I added both the RMC-1L and XMC-2 to the list regardless, thinking that the newer versions are likely better, and hopefully with fewer bugs.