Marantz AV10 AV Processor Review

[peng]

That definitely shows ADC/DAC bypass.

Thank you very much. I think Deckard71 should read up on Nyquist, until then, no one seems to be able to convince him so far, hopefully you could...

 

[peng]

Also, with pure direct you don't get processing/DSP but you can still use bass management (i.e. crossover settings for crossover works). I would guess the same with the AV10, but you never know until verified.

That bass management part amazed me a little at the time (a few years ago) so I emailed Marantz and their response was:

Response By Email (NJ Customer Support) (02/10/2020 05:53 PM)

Looking at the end of the Volume IC trace, I do see there's a Tone Control (crossover) which would explain the low frequency output to the sub in Direct Mode.

Thanks,
Marantz NA

Customer By Web (02/08/2020 02:38 PM)

 

[Russ_L]

USB audio input is not found.

The new Anthem processors, the 70 and the 90, also lack an USB input.

Russ

 

[Descartes]

Yep, button on the right side. Nice soft "click" on actuation. Stays on for about 6 seconds.
LEDs very well integrated. No light leakage.

View attachment 331391

Very nice and in metal you said! Anthem should take note!

 

[Russ_L]

A very significant review -- a milestone, even. A mainstream, name-brand consumer electronics company has proven that a mainstream, name-brand consumer electronics company CAN produce a thoroughly competent AV processor for which no apologies need be made. The price is prohibitive for me, and I doubt I will ever have need for 19 channels. But I sincerely doubt that the things that make this a $7000 product and the things that make it test well have a ton of overlap (with the possible exception of NRE, which would be easy to amortize over the large number of units that a less expensive unit would move). Less expensive performant AV processors are now possible. Apologists just ran out of excuses.

Match this performance in a smaller box with half the channels for under $2k and I'm ready to throw down.

NRE (R&D) are not amortized into hardware prices. Both are a cost of doing business so are deductible from income at tax time.

Russ

 

[Russ_L]

I am guessing, but I would expect the Denon A1H to be at the same level of performance, there are enough similarities in the back panel layout to suspect substantial sharing of the DSP/HDMI/Preamp circuits....

Yes. But with numerous amplifiers in close proximity to the balance of the circuitry I would expect (at least) 5-10 dB loss in SINAD.

Russ

 

[Chrispy]

Yes. But with numerous amplifiers in close proximity to the balance of the circuitry I would expect (at least) 5-10 dB loss in SINAD.

Russ

Why do you assume that? Is there some sort of proven equivalence?

 

[multisport4me]

That bass management part amazed me a little at the time (a few years ago) so I emailed Marantz and their response was:

I never knew that. Will be interested in what they say as I had assumed crossovers was handled by DSP. I still think maybe that is what Deckard71 is hearing - he has a crossover set. Then again...does the guy even own an AV10?

 

[peng]

I never knew that. Will be interested in what they say as I had assumed crossovers was handled by DSP. I still think maybe that is what Deckard71 is hearing - he has a crossover set. Then again...does the guy even own an AV10?

We cannot assume the AV10 works the same way as the old models. Someone needs to ask Marantz engineering about it. Customer reps most likely won't know such technical details, but may be willing to get an anser from their engineering colleages, or may be not.

 

[peng]

Yes. But with numerous amplifiers in close proximity to the balance of the circuitry I would expect (at least) 5-10 dB loss in SINAD.

Russ

I doubt it, just compare the Denon avrs measurements to the AV7705, or compare the SR7015 to AV7705, or the SVR-X8500H, you won't see 5 dB loss in SINAD, in fact you will see the opposite.

 

[Russ_L]

Why do you assume that? Is there some sort of proven equivalence?

Intuitive. The complexity goes up substantially in an AVR. Note that the higher end Denon AVRs allow the unused amplifiers to be turned off. Must be a reason for that.

Russ

 

[Russ_L]

I doubt it, just compare the Denon avrs measurements to the AV7705, or compare the SR7015 to AV7705, or the SVR-X8500H, you won't see 5 dB loss in SINAD, in fact you will see the opposite.

What would be more interesting and provide better empirical data would be to measure an 8500h with all the amps on and then all the amps off. No apples to oranges there. Amir?

Russ

 

[Gringoaudio1]

and you know this, how?
Please provide proof of your claim.
Even if it is 90% what is your point.
Are businesses not allowed a profit?
Who are you or anyone beyond the business to say what profit is acceptable

I suggest you open and run a business to make a living and then i am highly confident these comments will never come to your thoughts again

There are folks here who clearly don’t understand and know manufacturing. Being in electronics manufacturing and other sectors I’m always surprised that manufacturers even bother with the huge investment required to build pretty much anything and the low margins they get. The problem is the other people in the chain demand such high margins and there are so many hands taking a cut before things hit the retail stores.

 

[Russ_L]

NRE (R&D) are not amortized into hardware prices. Both are a cost of doing business so are deductible from income at tax time.

Russ

Correcting myself. NRE (non recurring engineering) is charged directly to the initial design and may be amortized. R&D is a write off.

Russ

 

[Mikycoud]

What would be more interesting and provide better empirical data would be to measure an 8500h with all the amps on and then all the amps off. No apples to oranges there. Amir?

Russ

A 3700 with the front amps off, but you get the idea...

 

[voodooless]

This AVP for example uses ESS9018. There are DAC ICs with better performance if implemented well.

No other chips needed. They left more than 10dB of performance on the table. It can do 120 SINAD, I doubt spending oodles more on higher grade chips to get 2 or 3 dB more potential SINAD would be worth it (though for the budget.. one may expect it).

No, performance is clear lost along the way, HDAMs and volume control ICs, and the long routes the signals need to travel though the noisy environment are probably to blame.

 

[Thomas_A]

That bass management part amazed me a little at the time (a few years ago) so I emailed Marantz and their response was:

So that "tone control" means a 12/24 x-over?

 

[Deckard71]

That definitely shows ADC/DAC bypass.

Thanks Amirm

Then they have had to change something in the new series because in the former series (e.g. 7015 or 8015) if you connect an external DAC to the 7.1ch inputs (100% analog) the sound is quite different vs connecting to a regular RCA input, both in pure direct

 

[Vacceo]

No other chips needed. They left more than 10dB of performance on the table. It can do 120 SINAD, I doubt spending oodles more on higher grade chips to get 2 or 3 dB more potential SINAD would be worth it (though for the budget.. one may expect it).

No, performance is clear lost along the way, HDAMs and volume control ICs, and the long routes the signals need to travel though the noisy environment are probably to blame.

I wonder, does something like the presence of an FM tunner contribute to that reduction?

 

[KenMasters]

No other chips needed. They left more than 10dB of performance on the table. It can do 120 SINAD, I doubt spending oodles more on higher grade chips to get 2 or 3 dB more potential SINAD would be worth it (though for the budget.. one may expect it).

No, performance is clear lost along the way, HDAMs and volume control ICs, and the long routes the signals need to travel though the noisy environment are probably to blame.

Is it not headroom reserved for Audyssey and Dirac?