Major confusion over Motu M2 - a lot of conflicting reviews

[Chrispy]

yap. I´m the master!

Master something....

 

[Chrispy]

@malp might try some of these threads

dac differences audible site:audiosciencereview.com at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

 

[eyekaiser]

No you wouldn’t … it is very very very very unlikely unless you are super duber gifted listener which many claim but hardly ever proofed. Specifically can one detect a drop of ca 0.3dB between 40 and 20Hz or the ca 95dB SINAD or pick any other of the performance parameters?

This is the more likely explanation why differences are perceived

Audio Blind Testing - You Are Doing It Wrong! (Video)

Just uploaded a video on the basics of performing controlled tests in audio. It was motivated by saving myself text in having to write all of this down when telling someone who to do these tests right. And as a counter to a few online personalities to keep saying they do "blind" tests yet when...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Or the recording was not done with enough headroom to prevent clipping. We simply don’t know without proof from the claimant.

@pkane provides software where you can test your ability of detecting audible differences and see if you are the chosen one with the bat ears. For most it is very humbling.

Hmmm, no difference between a consumer level audio card and a professional studio one. How interesting.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Hmmm, no difference between a consumer level audio card and a professional studio one. How interesting.

No between M2 and ID14 that was the discussion about.

 

[malp]

I am going to get an Id14 soon and I will post an audio from both and you will be able to hear those differences.

 

[malp]

Ok. Got the two side by side. And Ive test it with my eyes closed and I have to state that the Id14 it is much more musical than the M2. It´s like it is more 3D sounding, the soundstage is much clearer and open.
It will be dificult to make a sound test to prove this but I can try with my field recorder.

Regards headphone output I prefer the M2, sounds really good, warm and musical, good sound stage. The ID14 in this case, sounds colder, less sound stage.

Regards construction the M2 is rock solid. The new Id14 mk2 came with the volume pot a bit wobbly, it sucks. But I am returning the M2. I almost don´t mix with headphones.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Ok. Got the two side by side. And Ive test it with my eyes closed and I have to state that the Id14 it is much more musical than the M2. It´s like it is more 3D sounding, the soundstage is much clearer and open.
It will be dificult to make a sound test to prove this but I can try with my field recorder.

Regards headphone output I prefer the M2, sounds really good, warm and musical, good sound stage. The ID14 in this case, sounds colder, less sound stage.

Regards construction the M2 is rock solid. The new Id14 mk2 came with the volume pot a bit wobbly, it sucks. But I am returning the M2. I almost don´t mix with headphones.

Did you at least match levels with a volt meter?

 

[Trell]

Did you at least match levels with a volt meter?

What for? The difference is like between day and night.

 

[malp]

Did you at least match levels with a volt meter?

I did with a decibel meter, same exact spot to match volumes.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I did with a decibel meter, same exact spot to match volumes.

What is it with db meters. Not as good as using a volt meter. Did you use a tone or music?

 

[malp]

What is it with db meters. Not as good as using a volt meter. Did you use a tone or music?

It is the only I have... I´ve played the same exact spot from a track, around 10s, that I´ve recorded few days ago with 2 guitars, and I ´ve matched the output volume to achieve exactly the same db readings.

 

[malp]

My issue now is if I should return this id14 unit due a wobbly volume pot... my previous one didn´t has this issue. I´m having this intuition that audient has some QC issues regards their products, because it is not the first that people complain about this exact problem.

 

[Koeitje]

I did with a decibel meter, same exact spot to match volumes.

That is simply not accurate enough.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

My issue now is if I should return this id14 unit due a wobbly volume pot... my previous one didn´t has this issue. I´m having this intuition that audient has some QC issues regards their products, because it is not the first that people complain about this exact problem.

Blind testing does not mean testing blind. Blind testing means that you don’t know what is playing. See the video from Amir. The others already commented on level matching, which is very important as the smallest difference in loudness is already perceived and louder is usually perceived as better sounding.

 

[malp]

That is simply not accurate enough.

I understand but is more than enough for me.

 

[malp]

Blind testing does not mean testing blind. Blind testing means that you don’t know what is playing. See the video from Amir. The others already commented on level matching, which is very important as the smallest difference in loudness is already perceived and louder is usually perceived as better sounding.

But I am not talking about loudness, I did say and I repeat, the soundstage of the ID14 is wider, sound is warmer and richer. I can instant hear it with my eyes closed. It is just more musical.

Fortunately I have very good hearing. I have graduate in classic music... just to say that we classic musicians have spent and have dedicated our lives to music and music instruments that worth thousands of dollars (same as new car) in trying to hear tiny differences between them. So do you think that we are going to measure those tiny differences with sound meter??? No man... we´ve developed a good hearing sense. So when I say, I can hear those differences, it is because I can and I trust my hearing.

 

[Blumlein 88]

But I am not talking about loudness, I did say and I repeat, the soundstage of the ID14 is wider, sound is warmer and richer. I can instant hear it with my eyes closed. It is just more musical.

Fortunately I have very good hearing. I have graduate in classic music... just to say that we classic musicians have spent and have dedicated our lives to music and music instruments that worth thousands of dollars (same as new car) in trying to hear tiny differences between them. So do you think that we are going to measure those tiny differences with sound meter??? No man... we´ve developed a good hearing sense. So when I say, I can hear those differences, it is because I can and I trust my hearing.

Unfortunately you are wrong about this. But you aren't going to listen. Pun intended.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

But I am not talking about loudness, I did say and I repeat, the soundstage of the ID14 is wider, sound is warmer and richer. I can instant hear it with my eyes closed. It is just more musical.

Fortunately I have very good hearing. I have graduate in classic music... just to say that we classic musicians have spent and have dedicated our lives to music and music instruments that worth thousands of dollars (same as new car) in trying to hear tiny differences between them. So do you think that we are going to measure those tiny differences with sound meter??? No man... we´ve developed a good hearing sense. So when I say, I can hear those differences, it is because I can and I trust my hearing.

The loudness is with regard to the lack of level matching which you only did with an SPL meter.

As explained before your hearing might be great but our brain plays tricks on us. See Psychoacoustics. Same with testing Pharma products…. one needs to conduct controlled tests to eliminate the unconscious effects of our brain on what we perceive (hearing, seeing, tasting, feeling)

All explained here

Audio Blind Tests and Listener Training (video)

I see so many people claiming to have done blind tests in youtube videos recently without knowing what it means to perform one. Also, the topic of training comes up with many abusing the term. So I decided on a whim to create a video on it. It is rather long at 44 minutes but you can speed it...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Blumlein 88]

But I am not talking about loudness, I did say and I repeat, the soundstage of the ID14 is wider, sound is warmer and richer. I can instant hear it with my eyes closed. It is just more musical.

Fortunately I have very good hearing. I have graduate in classic music... just to say that we classic musicians have spent and have dedicated our lives to music and music instruments that worth thousands of dollars (same as new car) in trying to hear tiny differences between them. So do you think that we are going to measure those tiny differences with sound meter??? No man... we´ve developed a good hearing sense. So when I say, I can hear those differences, it is because I can and I trust my hearing.

Expounding further do you know what sounds different if two identical devices differ by .4 db? One sounds like it has more extension at both ends a deeper richer soundstage and just a better sound. It does not sound louder, it just sounds better. This is a widely known phenomenon. You need careful matching to avoid it. Using music and an SPL meter no matter how careful, you aren't going to get matching within .1 db which is what you need. You cannot educate or train yourself out of it or around it. You just cannot do it.

 

[xeizo]

Ok, let's say anything better than a baseline 100$ interface is all placebo, well it may be chances are it is. But even if it is placebo, it will still be more pleasant to work with the interface you prefer even if it is all smoke and mirrors.

On a more practical level, features and implementation of those is more important. Wobbly buttons as the Audient above kills the experience.

As for M.2, it has documented problems changing sample rate on Windows, that is a real problem and makes usage sometimes clumsy and un-intuitive. A problem most other interfaces do not have even a trace of.