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Mahler - Symphony No. 2

Daverz

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I like Schwarzkopf very much. The quality of the recording, however, is not so great. That was something that you had said was important to you, wasn't it? Jim

I listened to this yesterday (the remastering in the Klemperer Mahler box), and it sounds great.

71VucLECECL._SX522_.jpg


A great box. I wouldn't usually go to this 4th (Schwarzkopf is wrong for the finale) and the 7th is something you might only listen to once (very slow tempos), but the 2 and 9 are great, and the Das Lied is probably the greatest recording ever made of it.
 
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Kal Rubinson

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One interesting thing about the live performance of Mahler #2, is there is a movement where horns are off stage, actually, in the back and a bit on each sides of the audience. This cannot be reproduced correctly in 2-channel.
Certainly. Of course, while multichannel greatly enhances the sonic quality and the experience of it, it is another variable, independent of performance quality.
 

CtheArgie

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I do like the series that the San Francisco Symphony issues. It is originally recorded in DSD but there is a PCM version available too.

 

Kal Rubinson

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I do like the series that the San Francisco Symphony issues. It is originally recorded in DSD but there is a PCM version available too.
This is series, as well as the Fischer/BFO series on Channel Classics and the incomplete Abbado/Lucerne series on BluRay , greatly benefits from good multichannel reproduction. There are several others, too.
 

DonH56

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I have the San Francisco Mahler boxed set but have not listened to #2 yet (only #5). I have the discs, and the system, just need the time...
 

fun

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I have the San Francisco Mahler boxed set but have not listened to #2 yet (only #5). I have the discs, and the system, just need the time...
I don't have other Mahler #2 to compare in terms of performance and interpretation, but the recording quality of the Mahler #2 SACD by SFO/Tilson is amazing. The sound is spacious, the timbres of the orchestra is natural, and the dynamics is huge. The Mahler #1 SACD by Telarc/Zander is also spectacular.
 

jcarys

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Well, you obviously have a rich list to go through by now. One of the very first CDs (yes, Compact Disc) that I bought was the Telarc recording from 1982 with Leonard Slatkin and the St. Louis Symphony, so it's still a favorite. These days I'm also more of a multichannel listener, so I can recommend the Osmo Vanska/Minneapolis on Bis, Michael Tilson Thomas/SF on their own label, and Fischer/Budapest FO on Channel. Have fun.
 
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Martini

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So I downloaded two versions, Simon Rattle at BSO w/Baker and Otto Klemperer at Philharmonia w/Schwarzkopf. I listened to Rattle last night and Klemperer today. I will say I liked the Klemperer version better. The Simon Rattle wasn't bad, the sound was better, but after hearing Klemperer, it seemed, well.... a little robotic. Klemperer was a more human. That the best way for me to describe my initial impression. I'd like to get at third just flush things out more and was considering the Jansons RCO, since it sounds like it was well recorded. Also, considering Boulez, Abbado-Lucerne and Jurowski-LSO (saw some good reviews for this) but, I don't currently have a cd/dvd burner and I've only found these available on CD. Also spotted an Ashkenazy at Sydney version, but only see an iTunes availability. I love some of Askenazy's work. He's Rachmaninov-Isle of the Dead and Shostakovich Sym. No. 5 w/RPO are fantastic. Anyone heard his Mahler?
 
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Robin L

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This is sort-of why I was seeking recommendations. I've found that often, with Classical music, that the first version you listen to can color your judgement for subsequent interpretations. So I figure it's best to start with a solid work. Sound-wise, a bad recording can kill a great performance, however a great recording won't save a bad performance.
Leonard Bernstein's third commercial recording, with the New York Philharmonic on DGG, is the recording I have returned to the most often, including many already mentioned here. The sound is more than good enough, Bernstein's way with this work is how I first heard this piece [in the earlier NYPO recording on Columbia, not as good sonically as the DGG recording, but really not bad]. There are plenty of alternate performances that I have enjoyed, but none as much as this one.
 

Kal Rubinson

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So I downloaded two versions Simon Rattle at BSO, with Baker and Otto Klemperer at Philharmonia w/Schwarzkopf. I listened to Rattle last night and Klemperer today. I will say I liked the Klemperer version better.
Agreed. IMHO, it is Rattle's early one with the CBSO that is most interesting, albeit still not at Klemperer's level.
 

Robin L

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Agreed. IMHO, it is Rattle's early one with the CBSO that is most interesting, albeit still not at Klemperer's level.
I remember Rattle conducting the "Resurrection" with the LAPO at the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion, my first experience of the work in concert. Folks started leaving ten minutes before the climax, doubtlessly to find their way to a bar. This did not happen [many years later] when I was in a front row seat at Davies Symphony with Michael Tilson Thomas Leading the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra. I wish it was this performance that SFS chose to release, it was one for the ages The SACD is pretty good for those that seek surround sound.
 

JJB70

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Another vote for Bernstein, I also like Tennstedt.

An odd one was Gilbert Kaplan, a wealthy amateur with an obsession for this symphony who pretty much bought his way to conducting it and released his efforts on CD. It sounds like a recipe for a disaster, but I didn't think it was that bad (though neither was it that good).
 
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Martini

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Agreed. IMHO, it is Rattle's early one with the CBSO that is most interesting, albeit still not at Klemperer's level.
Think that's the Rattle I got..?
rattle-2.1986.jpg

Plus the Klemperer:
klemperer-2.1961.jpg
 

mSpot

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Outstanding recordings have already been recommended, and I'll just add these comments.

If you have a chance to attend a live performance of the Mahler 2nd, don't miss it! Over the years, I've been fortunate to a hear it in concert a few times, and it was always cathartic. A home system doesn't come close to reproducing the experience in a concert hall with full orchestra and chorus.

And finally, don't forget YouTube. There are memorable concert performances to be found. Here is just one (search YouTube for others).

An intense performance by Leonard Bernstein and the London Symphony in Ely Cathedral, 1973. An era when the orchestra was still all men and the soloists (Sheila Armstrong and Janet Baker) in big hair.
 

Presently42

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If ever you're interested in Mahler 7, I strongly recommend Kent Nagano and the Montreal Symphony Orchestra's reading of it. I was not terribly fond of the piece, until I heard that performance.

As for Mahler 2, I'd be happy to upload my own recording of Nagano and the OSM performing it - but then you'd be subjected to my terrible tenor croaks! All jokes aside, I think Nagano is a very strong Mahlerian conductor, and lament not being able to acquire recordings of him with the OSM. The Resurrection symphony is rather special to me; and I had a profound experience whilst rehearsing it the first time. I'm always glad to see others sharing in the power of this piece.
 

xaviescacs

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So I downloaded two versions, Simon Rattle at BSO w/Baker and Otto Klemperer at Philharmonia w/Schwarzkopf. I listened to Rattle last night and Klemperer today. I will say I liked the Klemperer version better. The Simon Rattle wasn't bad, the sound was better, but after hearing Klemperer, it seemed, well.... a little robotic. Klemperer was a more human. That the best way for me to describe my initial impression. I'd like to get at third just flush things out more and was considering the Jansons RCO, since it sounds like it was well recorded. Also, considering Boulez, Abbado-Lucerne and Jurowski-LSO (saw some good reviews for this) but, I don't currently have a cd/dvd burner and I've only found these available on CD. Also spotted an Ashkenazy at Sydney version, but only see an iTunes availability. I love some of Askenazy's work. He's Rachmaninov-Isle of the Dead and Shostakovich Sym. No. 5 w/RPO are fantastic. Anyone heard his Mahler?
Agreed. IMHO, it is Rattle's early one with the CBSO that is most interesting, albeit still not at Klemperer's level.
Klemperer rushes too much, not letting the music to breath. Just compare the first 2 minutes carefully with Rattle or Tilson Thomas versions. Klemperer's version seems to miss a lot, there is much more than he exposes. Klemperer's version is a bit old, in the sense that still carries this tradition of regarding Mahler as a romantic, and not fully understanding all that his music contains. Rattle or Tilson Thomas versions are more modern and way better in that respect, not caring about interpretation tradition and trying to analyze this music from starch and extracting all it has.

Of course, Boulez's is the most accurate and balanced one ;). Specially in the control of tempo, which is super human. Just listen how much tension, intensity and depth he is able to create here (listen up to 14:40). It reminds me of this passage. There is also another characteristic in Boulez version: its sharpness. Compare again the first 2 minutes with the others. In general, on could say that Boulez presents us the crude reality, the facts, without judging them beforehand, without prejudices.

About robot or not robotic, this is not romantic music, although is difficult to classify, it belongs more to a realistic interpretation of facts, more existential, despite its root being folkloric. Traditionally it has been interpreted in this fashion, like if it were Brahms, but I think that the more modern approach is more accurate, and this realistic characteristic is what Berg and Schoenberg liked about it, as an alternative to Romanticism, a true step forward. As an exercise, try listening to Schoenberg's violin concerto, and then go back to Mahler.

In summary, of these mentioned versions, if ones intentions are understand this music and what Mahler is trying to tell us, his philosophical points of view, I would recommend Boulez, Rattle and Tilson Thomas, but not Klemperer.

I haven't listened to Ashkenazy's version. However, In general I would say Ashkenazy is a great creator, this leads to interesting versions, which we can like or not, but very personal and less objective, I would say. This is not a bad thing, just a different approach.
 

Robin L

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If ever you're interested in Mahler 7, I strongly recommend Kent Nagano and the Montreal Symphony Orchestra's reading of it. I was not terribly fond of the piece, until I heard that performance.

As for Mahler 2, I'd be happy to upload my own recording of Nagano and the OSM performing it - but then you'd be subjected to my terrible tenor croaks! All jokes aside, I think Nagano is a very strong Mahlerian conductor, and lament not being able to acquire recordings of him with the OSM. The Resurrection symphony is rather special to me; and I had a profound experience whilst rehearsing it the first time. I'm always glad to see others sharing in the power of this piece.
FWIW, I was recording engineer for the Berkeley Symphony Orchestra in the 1990's, when Kent Nagano was director. I'm surprised that Nagano has been drawn to Late Romantic scores. His SACD of Bruckner's Third Symphony Symphony [original version] is quite the wonder.
 

mSpot

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Klemperer's version is a bit old, in the sense that still carries this tradition of regarding Mahler as a romantic, and not fully understanding all that his music contains.
Then you should start thinking of Mahler as a romantic, because Klemperer was Mahler's friend and assistant, and he heard how Mahler conducted his own music.
https://mahlerfoundation.org/mahler/contemporaries/otto-klemperer/

As an aside, Bruno Walter had an even closer personal connection with Mahler.
https://mahlerfoundation.org/mahler/contemporaries/bruno-walter/

Music performance is something that is always evolving. Our attitudes are shaped by the prevailing style and accepted conventions of today. Imagine if pop musicians felt there was a correct or ideal way to play a cover song.

Listen to Willem Mengelberg's recording of the Mahler 4th. It is bizarre by today's performance practices, yet Mahler knew and admired Mengelberg.
 

xaviescacs

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Then you should start thinking of Mahler as a romantic, because Klemperer was Mahler's friend and assistant, and he heard how Mahler conducted his own music.
https://mahlerfoundation.org/mahler/contemporaries/otto-klemperer/

As an aside, Bruno Walter had an even closer personal connection with Mahler.
https://mahlerfoundation.org/mahler/contemporaries/bruno-walter/

Music performance is something that is always evolving. Our attitudes are shaped by the prevailing style and accepted conventions of today. Imagine if pop musicians felt there was a correct or ideal way to play a cover song.

Listen to Willem Mengelberg's recording of the Mahler 4th. It is bizarre by today's performance practices, yet Mahler knew and admired Mengelberg.
I've read Walter's book, but didn't know about Klemperer's relation with Mahler. That's a good one. Do you know for certain that his 2nd is similar to the original? Do you think Klemperer tries to reproduce the same he heard? To covey us Mahler's original interpretation? Also, Mahler regretted about many things in his life, including the textual annotation on his works and some movement ordering.

Music performance changes, many times guided by the public's opinion, and interpretation tradition has a strong weight in classical music, but, as I've said before, not everything is valid, and I truly believe that a score has a better way to be interpreted, and, to me, Klemperer and Abaddo don't get it right. Too simplistic and aesthetically idealistic in my opinion.

Of course that's not about proving or convincing anyone, just sharing what I think. The nice thing of making strong statements is that they often make people to want to say their opinion in contrast. :)
 
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