Magnetic amplifiers

[Suffolkhifinut]

If you apply a signal to an amplifier there will only be an output if the amplifier is powered up, connect a signal to the base terminal of a bipolar transistor and don’t connect the emitter and collector to a power supply nothing will happen. A transformer has never been and will never be classed as an amplifier! There is no signal input from the DC supplied control winding the input and output power in a transformer are AC. A thyristor can pass heavy currents between the anode and cathode when a small trigger signal is applied to the gate, the trigger signal isn’t amplified. The control winding in a magnetic amplifier is there to control output current, not to be amplifie. An amplified signal is identical to the input signal but bigger.

 

[Lambda]

If you apply a signal to an amplifier there will only be an output if the amplifier is powered up, connect a signal to the base terminal of a bipolar transistor and don’t connect the emitter and collector to a power supply nothing will happen.

Of cause... Waht’s your point with this?

To show the operation principle of an amplifier topology it is very common to uses simplified schematic:

https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/design/-documents/tutorials/5/5590.html Signal source, Power supply, load, impedance matching, AC cupping all this is not shown necessarily. it is just assumed common knowledge.

It don’t seem to me you share the same common knowledge or your not interested in understanding it.
taht’s ok there are 2 videos explaining it in simple therms with an demonstration.

A transformer has never been and will never be classed as an amplifier!

And nor did i claim this... i said with a Transductor/Saturable reactor i can make an amplifier.

VCA based on the concept of saturable reactors made from bridge of transformers driven in saturation.

I never said a transistor is an amplifier but an amplifier can be based on / made with transistor(s)
The same way i never claimd a transformer is an amplifier! but a amplifier can be based on "the concept of saturable reactors"
(To be more Precise this type or saturable reactors is clalled Transductor)

And this Transductor/Saturable reactor can be made from transformers.

The control winding in a magnetic amplifier is there to control output current, not to be amplifie.

Something in the name magnetic amplifier hints the operation of the device is commonly refers to as amplification or at least that it can be used for Amplification.

The magnetic amplifier (colloquially known as a "mag amp") is an electromagnetic device for amplifying electrical signals.

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

Of cause... Waht’s your point with this?


It don’t seem to me you share the same common knowledge or your not interested in understanding it.
taht’s ok there are 2 videos explaining it in simple therms with an demonstration.


And nor did i claim this... i said with a Transductor/Saturable reactor i can make an amplifier.


I never said a transistor is an amplifier but an amplifier can be based on / made with transistor(s)
The same way i never claimd a transformer is an amplifier! but a amplifier can be based on "the concept of saturable reactors"
(To be more Precise this type or saturable reactors is clalled Transductor)

And this Transductor/Saturable reactor can be made from transformers.


Something in the name magnetic amplifier hints the operation of the device is commonly refers to as amplification or at least that it can be used for Amplification.

Saturation means no increase in output can happen. Keep putting sugar in coffee and there will be a point at which no more sugar can be absorbed, saturation has been reached.

 

[Lambda]

Saturation means no increase in output can happen. Keep putting sugar in coffee and there will be a point at which no more sugar can be absorbed, saturation has been reached.

How is this relevant?
Transistors can saturate to. somehow they figured out how to uses them for amplification anyways...

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

How is this relevant?
Transistors can saturate to. somehow they figured out how to uses them for amplification anyways...

Just trying to get an understanding on what saturation means? A transistor should never be driven hard enough to go into saturation.

 

[Lambda]

Just trying to get an understanding on what saturation means?

Well then i would suggest you start reading about the topic and educate yourself.
Wikipedia would be a god start but you seam not to "believe" in it.

saturable reactor:
is a special form of inductor where the magnetic core can be deliberately saturated by a direct electric current in a control winding. Once saturated, the inductance of the saturable reactor drops dramatically.[1] This decreases inductive reactance and allows increased flow of the alternating current (AC).

The Able in the name refers to that it can be deliberately be saturated

Like A flammable liquid is a combustible liquid which can be easily ignited in air at ambient temperatures

Can != Must

A transistor should never be driven hard enough to go into saturation.

Although i never said Transductor/Saturable reactor can only be used fully saturated.

Transistor switches can be used to switch a low voltage DC device (e.g. LED’s) ON or OFF by using a transistor in its saturated or cut-off state

A class-D amplifier or switching amplifier is an electronic amplifier in which the amplifying devices (transistors, usually MOSFETs) operate as electronic switches, and not as linear gain devices as in other amplifiers.

So your wrong again...

Maybe buy a book:

Amazon.com

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

Well then i would suggest you start reading about the topic and educate yourself.
Wikipedia would be a god start but you seam not to "believe" in it.

The Able in the name refers to that it can be deliberately be saturated

Can != Must


Although i never said Transductor/Saturable reactor can only be used fully saturated.


So your wrong again...

Maybe buy a book:

Amazon.com

Taught it well for 30 years and had to deal with people who shouted loud to disguise their lack of knowledge. Csn learn many things from many people, you aren‘t one of them.

 

[Plcamp]

Heh, The team I was member of in mid 1980’s developed four types of mag amp pulse width controllers used as secondary supply regulators on 25 kHz switched mode power supplies.

The modes we used were “set”, “reset”, “both” and “orthogonal control”…all used an error amp (a cheap tl431 shunt regulator could do the job) to control toroid remanence prior to arrival of transformer pulse. Set or reset referred to whether your control circuit reduced delay, increased delay or both. Orthogonal experimented using windings in two orthogonal directions to control remanence without interwinding coupling.

The biggest limitation was variability vs temperature, which limited the control range of the system. I remember at the time thinking that with increased base switching frequency, an audio amp with great efficiency could be created.

Fun memories, even if it was work at the time

 

[FrankF]

Bob Dabbled with them too!

 

[Lambda]

Taught it well for 30 years and had to deal with people who shouted loud to disguise their lack of knowledge. Csn learn many things from many people, you aren‘t one of them.

The "i have done it for 30 years" "i don’t care what Wikipedia says" is exactly the typ of arrogance stopping you from understanding.
You keep repeating thinks like "A transformer is not an amplifier" or "an amplifier without power supply won’t work."
No one said so but if you put a fraction of your energy in trying to understand what i’m actually talking about you could not disagree.

You have miss read the schematic? and/or you have not read or understand my post?
Can also happen is a very old schematic from the 50s it looks like transformers in series.

Can’t see any control winding in the first diagram, just primary and secondary winding.

Power in = Power out

But it is actually not. they cancel out.
Also you seam to have missed the load resistor in the semantic.
Also maybe my explanation was bad. sure it was... but you chose not to ask but to tell.
But the schematic is literally an actually text book Magnetic amplifier. form a >50 year old text book about magnetic amplifiers.

Can easily happen but you chose not to consider the possibility of a mistake/misunderstanding and instead completely derailing the augment.

A BC108 a small signal transistor has a gain of up to 900,

Don’t care what WikI says

connect a signal to the base terminal of a bipolar transistor and don’t connect the emitter and collector to a power supply nothing will happen.

A transformer has never been and will never be classed as an amplifier!

Saturation means no increase in output can happen

A transistor should never be driven hard enough to go into saturation.

Sure this are all nice "claims" most of them are even right.
But non of this is an Replay to what i have said?!

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

Sorry I can’t answer the points you make, the are like a form of technical Spoonerism. Technically and logically they don’t make sense.

 

[kipman725]

this threads pretty lame; but this sites got loads of magnetic amp info: http://sparkbangbuzz.com/mag-amp/mag-amp.htm

 

[classicsx]

On this website are magnetic amplifiers for purchase.
Motion Amplify

 

[iMickey503]

this threads pretty lame; but this sites got loads of magnetic amp info: http://sparkbangbuzz.com/mag-amp/mag-amp.htm

This is the basic idea of how a Coil in a car works for the ignition system correct?
also and I might be wrong but isn't this how a jewel thief works? Or those solar lights when they use an inductor to boost the voltage to the LED?


What I did not ever hear about is Borax Rectifiers. I think this is the first time I ever heard about this period.

Photo Credit : Nyle Steiner K7NS

The fact that it glows? Now this might have some potential! if it also works with baking soda then they should be a really cool thing to make during the Halloween season.

Photo Credit : Nyle Steiner K7NS



Anyways..

THIS looks like a FUN project that ANYONE can do. Not a lot of parts and stuff you can find in any bad or thrown away power supply.

Homemade Magnetic Audio Amplifier.

Photo Credit : Nyle Steiner K7NS

Photo Credit : Nyle Steiner K7NS


I might just try to build this! Cool link man Thanks!