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Magnepan LRS Speaker Review

Newman

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against the Ascend Sierra Towers they sounded "fuzzy" compared to the crystal clear Sierra Towers
a sound that can't possibly be that clear as it's being dispersed from all sides of the speaker
Firstly, a dipole loudspeaker does not disperse sound from all sides. One of its strengths is that it does not do so.

Secondly, even if a speaker was doing so, the ‘clearness’ would be highly dependent on your wall treatments and room character.

Thirdly, your report of ‘fuzzy’ sound of the LRS is a big indicator that you fell foul of its hyper-sensitive vertical directivity, which Amir measured:-
1609552110594.png


Amir himself was initially fooled, by getting the measurement axis slightly wrong, which created a frequency response like this:-
1609552239697.png


The above frequency response probably sounds very much like the report that you gave above, ‘fuzzy’ or lacking clarity. This would explain your experience better than notions that it disperses sound “from all sides”.

If you had gotten the listening axis exactly right, you would have experienced the on axis FR in black, below. Although still a touch lacking in the 1-4 kHz range, it would not be enough to sound blatantly ‘fuzzy’, IMO.

1609552921538.png


I gather that you have returned the speakers now, so you don’t have the opportunity to have another listen while making small fine tuning adjustments to the tilt angle that you are listening at, until you are listening in the super-narrow beam shown in red in the top illustration above.

cheers
 
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richard12511

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I read a post like yours saying how the LRS was great and ordered a pair. Once they arrived I tested them with the Hegel H90, Monolith 7x200 and the March Audio P452 amps. They sounded OK if I didn't compare them against anything and just listened. I thought they sounded best with female vocalists like Diana Krall.

However, when I A/B tested them with volume matching against the Ascend Sierra Towers they sounded "fuzzy" compared to the crystal clear Sierra Towers. I had the LRS 5 feet out from the front wall and tried moving them around for better sound. However, after a day of comparing the LRS with the Sierra Tower I realized I prefer a crystal clear sound rather than a sound that can't possibly be that clear as it's being dispersed from all sides of the speaker. I currently own DiPoles and in the 80's I owned a pair of Ohm speakers (basically an inverted speaker). However, none of those come close to the total lack of sound direction offered by the LRS panel. It was pretty clear the LRS wasn't my cup of tea. As a musician, I know what live sound is like... in my experience it's nothing like the LRS panels I listened to. My guess is you will either really like the LRS sound or won't want them in the house. :)

The Ascend Sierra Tower is a much more expensive speaker, so it "should" sound considerably better, even if both speakers are well engineered.
 

amper42

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Firstly, a dipole loudspeaker does not disperse sound from all sides. One of its strengths is that it does not do so.

Secondly, even if a speaker was doing so, the ‘clearness’ would be highly dependent on your wall treatments and room character.

Thirdly, your report of ‘fuzzy’ sound of the LRS is a big indicator that you fell foul of its hyper-sensitive vertical directivity, which Amir measured:-
View attachment 102953

Amir himself was initially fooled, by getting the measurement axis slightly wrong, which created a frequency response like this:-
View attachment 102954

The above frequency response probably sounds very much like the report that you gave above, ‘fuzzy’ or lacking clarity. This would explain your experience better than notions that it disperses sound “from all sides”.

If you had gotten the listening axis exactly right, you would have experienced the on axis FR in black, below. Although still a touch lacking in the 1-4 kHz range, it would not be enough to sound blatantly ‘fuzzy’, IMO.

View attachment 102955

I gather that you have returned the speakers now, so you don’t have the opportunity to have another listen while making small fine tuning adjustments to the tilt angle that you are listening at, until you are listening in the super-narrow beam shown in red in the top illustration above.

cheers

When I was testing the LRS I could walk around it and actually hear more sound coming off the back than the front of the panel. It was really odd. I moved them to several different locations. Tried them loud and quiet. It sounded fine until I A/B them with the Sierra Towers and it was night and day on clarity. I'm sure some really like the sound. It just wasn't for me. I would consider the LRS sound to be totally different than any other speaker I have listened to.
 

BYRTT

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Firstly, a dipole loudspeaker does not disperse sound from all sides. One of its strengths is that it does not do so.

Secondly, even if a speaker was doing so, the ‘clearness’ would be highly dependent on your wall treatments and room character.

Thirdly, your report of ‘fuzzy’ sound of the LRS is a big indicator that you fell foul of its hyper-sensitive vertical directivity, which Amir measured:-
View attachment 102953

Amir himself was initially fooled, by getting the measurement axis slightly wrong, which created a frequency response like this:-
View attachment 102954

The above frequency response probably sounds very much like the report that you gave above, ‘fuzzy’ or lacking clarity. This would explain your experience better than notions that it disperses sound “from all sides”.

If you had gotten the listening axis exactly right, you would have experienced the on axis FR in black, below. Although still a touch lacking in the 1-4 kHz range, it would not be enough to sound blatantly ‘fuzzy’, IMO.

View attachment 102955

I gather that you have returned the speakers now, so you don’t have the opportunity to have another listen while making small fine tuning adjustments to the tilt angle that you are listening at, until you are listening in the super-narrow beam shown in red in the top illustration above.

cheers

Could be wrong here but think not for LRS case its so much tonality changes that is responsiple if stuff get fuzzy, reason is using acoustic 1st order crossover region that have non ideal consequenses outside used in pure electric domain or for coxial arrays, problem is the physical spacing plus out of phase slopes and the wide coverage that for a @1kHz crossover point will dictate passbands is not more than -20dB away one decade below and above crossover point (100Hz for tweeter & 10kHz for woofer), often its impossible hold textbook slopes that wide especially for the biggest diameter device and the 90º out of phase tilt main lobe plus it make any small movement of microphone per few inches to output another physical step response because we not in electrical domain or use a coxial transducer.

In below animation LRS panel is rotated -30º so main lobe points forward but still the normalized listening window is kind of non ideal fuzzy, for better clearance what happens with rotation have added Genelec 8341A and its -30º rotation below LRS graphs..

Newman_x1x1_1000mS.gif
 
Last edited:

josh358

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When I was testing the LRS I could walk around it and actually hear more sound coming off the back than the front of the panel. It was really odd. I moved them to several different locations. Tried them loud and quiet. It sounded fine until I A/B them with the Sierra Towers and it was night and day on clarity. I'm sure some really like the sound. It just wasn't for me. I would consider the LRS sound to be totally different than any other speaker I have listened to.
Well, I think Richard12511 has a point -- the LRS should be compared against speakers in its price range; the right comparison here would be something like the Magnepan 1.7, which is comparably priced and a much better speaker than the LRS. Still, I have to wonder about the lack of clarity and fuzziness you experienced, because people often comment on the LRS's stat-like sound. (I assume you played them enough to let them break in -- Maggies come out of the box sounding kind of constipated.) They shouldn't sound that way, but should have low harmonic distortion, a relative absence of cabinet resonances, and relatively low room interaction overall (dipoles dump 4.8 dB less into the room than omnis). I remember the MMG's sounding somewhat fuzzy, but not, in my brief listening, the LRS.

Perhaps the vertical angle wasn't right as Newman suggested -- they have to be tilted back so that your ears are on axis vertically. Or perhaps your acoustic was too "wet" -- the more reverberant it is, the less defined and spacious the sound will be (for any speaker), while the "drier" it is the greater the perceived clarity. But I don't associate any of this with "fuzziness" -- to my mind, that subjective term implies diaphragm breakup and non-linear distortion. I may not be understanding how you're using the term.

Another question is how loud you were playing them and how large your room was. These speakers will not work in a large room, and they "fall apart" when you push the level. (My MMG's, when I had them, got decided unhappy once SPL's reached the mid 90's.) I wouldn't want to use these for rock, except perhaps with a subwoofer.

Re BYRTT's point about the first order crossover, by chance, I watched Danny Ritchie's video on modifying the 1.7's the other day and he noticed that when he pushed the levels, the tweeter started distorting, so he put a second order crossover on the tweeter and the problem went away.

Re listening off the horizontal axis, in my experience the lobing causes changes in tonality as you move left and right -- the limited dispersion of the tweeter probably does as well, if you have younger ears than mine! But I wouldn't describe what I hear as fuzziness or lack of definition -- rather, I hear changes in tonality around the crossover point.

Also puzzled by the fact that your friend said the instruments don't sound real -- Seanhyatt's experience is more like mine, in that all but esoteric and expensive dynamics sound like they're humming along with the music rather than reproducing it. Realistic reproduction of acoustical instruments should be one of the fortes of a planar, as well as convincing reproduction of the space in a large venue. But they are very finicky about placement.
 

seanhyatt

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I read a post like yours saying how the LRS was great and ordered a pair. Once they arrived I tested them with the Hegel H90, Monolith 7x200 and the March Audio P452 amps. They sounded OK if I didn't compare them against anything and just listened. I thought they sounded best with female vocalists like Diana Krall.

However, when I A/B tested them with volume matching against the Ascend Sierra Towers they sounded "fuzzy" compared to the crystal clear Sierra Towers. I had the LRS 5 feet out from the front wall and tried moving them around for better sound. However, after a day of comparing the LRS with the Sierra Tower I realized I prefer a crystal clear sound rather than a sound that can't possibly be that clear as it's being dispersed from all sides of the speaker. I currently own DiPoles and in the 80's I owned a pair of Ohm speakers (basically an inverted speaker). However, none of those come close to the total lack of sound direction offered by the LRS panel. It was pretty clear the LRS wasn't my cup of tea. As a musician, I know what live sound is like... in my experience it's nothing like the LRS panels I listened to. My guess is you will either really like the LRS sound or won't want them in the house. :)

If I had A/B tested I may of liked the Sierra better. Can only comment compared to the KEF Q900 That sit next to the LRS. In any event a few days ago I moved around some sound panels and gained more respect for the KEFs. I am finding setup, room and equalization make the biggest difference between two well engineered speakers. All I know is that I have had both speakers for a while and I keep changing stuff (when I have time) and they both get better.
 

ctbarker32

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Hi,

I am pleased to announce the debut of a new YouTube channel called DIY HiFi Life.

My premiere video features three ways to upgrade the Magnepan LRS speaker to take them to the next level. Even if you don't have the LRS, you may find my technique for integrating a subwoofer in a 2.1 HiFi system of interest.

As always, I am grateful for your viewership and would appreciate your subscriptions and likes.

I have many other ideas for future videos and will be encouraged by growing subscriptions.

Thanks.

 

wje

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Hi,

I am pleased to announce the debut of a new YouTube channel called DIY HiFi Life.

My premiere video features three ways to upgrade the Magnepan LRS speaker to take them to the next level. Even if you don't have the LRS, you may find my technique for integrating a subwoofer in a 2.1 HiFi system of interest.

As always, I am grateful for your viewership and would appreciate your subscriptions and likes.

I have many other ideas for future videos and will be encouraged by growing subscriptions.

Thanks.


Greetings. I've watched part of your video on the LRS. I will watch the additional parts of the video on the LRS modifications today. Also, I'm local to the DC metro area and reside in northern VA. I'm following the DC Metro HiFI group on YouTube, too.

This past summer, I had the LRS, the .7 and the 1.7i in my condominium. The 1.7i was too overwhelming, so I got out of the Magnepan game for a bit. But, sprung for a pair of the LRS this past weekend. When driving the Magnepan LRS back in July/August, I was using a Crown XLS 1502 amplifier. The sound was "OK". Now, I'm using a McIntosh MC352 to drive them. The McIntosh clearly provides the current that the speakers need. Granted, I'm only using about 5 watts of power to get 60 - 65 dB in my listening position. While, on paper, the Crown XLS1502 had enough watts of power, but being of a class D variant, it couldn't provide the needed current to make the Magnepans sing.
 

Shazb0t

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While, on paper, the Crown XLS1502 had enough watts of power, but being of a class D variant, it couldn't provide the needed current to make the Magnepans sing.
How did you come to this conclusion? Purely by ear?
 

wje

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How did you come to this conclusion? Purely by ear?

Yes. After swapping the Crown XLS1502 out with a Parasound A23+, the sound had some significant changes - mainly in the bass region. Again, though, this is my subjective experience and listening. I'd hook up the speakers to the amp, then play a series of songs that I'm familiar with along with using an SPL meter in my seating position. I noticed a bigger difference with the .7 model when swapping out the Crown for the Parasound. I no longer own the Parasound A23+ amp, but have the McIntosh MC352 instead.
 

MrPeabody

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While, on paper, the Crown XLS1502 had enough watts of power, but being of a class D variant, it couldn't provide the needed current to make the Magnepans sing.

This raises a couple of questions. Is the reason the Magnepans need more current (at a given amount of power) because of low impedance, or something else? If it has to do with efficiency, this would imply a need for greater power, so this wouldn't explain why greater than ordinary amount of current is needed at a given amount of power. The other question is why class D amps with the same power rating as class A/AB amps can't provide the same current as a class A/AB amp.
 

wje

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Do those two show a difference with the Magnepans? Subjectively.

I've been listening to audio for 40+ years and am currently 57 years old. However, my ears about 5 years ago preferred a more detailed speaker and I owned 5 different pair of Focal speakers over the period of 1.5 years. Today, though, my ears tend to prefer a more relaxed sound - slightly rolled off highs, thicker mid-range, etc. I want a system that I can comfortably listen to music for 10+ hours each day - as I'm now teleworking during the Covid crisis. The Parasound A23+ amplifier had more upper end "bloom" that could be heard, while the mid-range was adequate and the low end was good. However, an opportunity arose for me to get a 2nd McIntosh amplifier, the MC352 for a super steal of a price, so I sprung on that option. My ears simply love the McIntosh sound - the slightly rolled off highs and the thicker mid-range presentation. To me, the McIntosh pairs better with the Magnepans than the Parasound A23+ did. However, that opinion in mine in where I currently stand, with respect to my listening preferences.

I did have the McIntosh amplifier paired up for a while with the Sonus Faber Venere 2.5 speakers. To me, it wasn't the best combination because the Venere 2.5 speakers were too rolled off. I think in that scenario, the Parasound A23+ would have shined. Also, the Focals that I owned (807V, 1007BE, 1027BE and 1037BE) over that period of time about 5 years back, I mainly used Peachtree and Emotiva amplifiers. Now, I think about how those speakers might have sounded with the McIntosh amplifiers that were built with the autoformer technology. I did have a brief experience a bit over a year ago with a McIntosh integrate amplifier - the MA5200 and a pair of Focal 1008BE speakers. That integrated amplifier was built on McIntosh's direct-coupled amplifier technology and not the autoformers. The sound? A little too thin for my liking, so I sold off those components.
 

wje

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This raises a couple of questions. Is the reason the Magnepans need more current (at a given amount of power) because of low impedance, or something else? If it has to do with efficiency, this would imply a need for greater power, so this wouldn't explain why greater than ordinary amount of current is needed at a given amount of power. The other question is why class D amps with the same power rating as class A/AB amps can't provide the same current as a class A/AB amp.

Yes, I'm not sure where to put my finger on this one. I thought there were a pair of class D monobloc amplifiers available locally that I wanted to try out with the Magnepans, so I could be sure it wasn't the Crown XLS1502 that was the weak link, or if it was a class D issue, in general. But, that pair of amplifiers was recently sold, so I don't have the option to try another class D amplifier configuration at this time.
 

wje

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Hi,

I am pleased to announce the debut of a new YouTube channel called DIY HiFi Life.

My premiere video features three ways to upgrade the Magnepan LRS speaker to take them to the next level. Even if you don't have the LRS, you may find my technique for integrating a subwoofer in a 2.1 HiFi system of interest.

As always, I am grateful for your viewership and would appreciate your subscriptions and likes.

I have many other ideas for future videos and will be encouraged by growing subscriptions.

Thanks.


I did finish watching the rest of the video yesterday. Some comments:
  • I'm not sure what the crossover slope is for the REL subwoofers? I do know that the Rythmik subwoofers have a toggle, which allows you to switch between a 12dB and a 24dB crossover slop on the plate amplifier.
  • I do have a 6mm diameter copper tube arriving today and will be making the swap for the fuses. I don't usually listen above 65dB in my listening chair, so I'm not worried about damaging the tweeters. Also, my pair of LRS speakers were purchased used, so I don't have the warranty concerns.
  • I've been running a MiniDSP between my preamplifier and amplifier for the past year and a half. With the MiniDSP, I do have the ability to fully configure my crossover options for the subwoofers in manners that are much more thorough than the manufacturer offers with their plate amplifier and crossover options. I currently have a pair of RSL Speedwoofer subwoofers, set to 65 Hz low-pass crossover point, with a 24dB crossover slope. The subwoofers are able to fully keep pace with the Magnepans. I previously had 2 10" Monolith THX subwoofers, but they were much harder to integrate with the Magenpans. They were more of a home theater subwoofer and less of a musical subwoofer.
  • I did try one of the new REL HT1003 subwoofers, because it was designed for home theater, but also had some good musical tendencies, too. However, I ended up returning that REL subwoofer because the vinyl veneer on the top started to lift up a bit around the glossy REL plate after about 3 weeks of use.
  • I'm following a thread on AudioCircle where a member was planning to replace the crossover components in the LRS with a better inductor and capacitor than what was originally supplied by Magnepan. Once I find out the values being utilized, I'll then, most likely, upgrade the crossover components to better parts.
  • Danny Richie of GR Research has updated crossover components for the Magnepan 1.6 and 1.7 speakers, but not the other models at this time.
 

Vasr

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I've been listening to audio for 40+ years and am currently 57 years old. However, my ears about 5 years ago preferred a more detailed speaker and I owned 5 different pair of Focal speakers over the period of 1.5 years. Today, though, my ears tend to prefer a more relaxed sound - slightly rolled off highs, thicker mid-range, etc. I want a system that I can comfortably listen to music for 10+ hours each day - as I'm now teleworking during the Covid crisis. The Parasound A23+ amplifier had more upper end "bloom" that could be heard, while the mid-range was adequate and the low end was good. However, an opportunity arose for me to get a 2nd McIntosh amplifier, the MC352 for a super steal of a price, so I sprung on that option. My ears simply love the McIntosh sound - the slightly rolled off highs and the thicker mid-range presentation. To me, the McIntosh pairs better with the Magnepans than the Parasound A23+ did. However, that opinion in mine in where I currently stand, with respect to my listening preferences.
Preference for Magnepans with rolled off highs in the electronics is not uncommon. Subjectively, I don't find the higher frequencies on the Magnepans very pleasing and get fatigued easily. I also find that "busy" music doesn't resolve very well on the Magnepan tweeters at least on the smaller Maggies. So "bright" or "neutral" electronics can sound harsh to me especially if it is under-powered to bring out that lower midrange goodness of the speakers.
 

wje

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Preference for Magnepans with rolled off highs in the electronics is not uncommon. Subjectively, I don't find the higher frequencies on the Magnepans very pleasing and get fatigued easily. I also find that "busy" music doesn't resolve very well on the Magnepan tweeters at least on the smaller Maggies. So "bright" or "neutral" electronics can sound harsh to me especially if it is under-powered to bring out that lower midrange goodness of the speakers.

Yes. I've realized that listening to rock and roll on the Magnepans wasn't nearly as good as it would be on a box speaker. But, there are also many horrible rock recordings that just can sound bad in general. 90%+ of my listening is currently jazz and female vocals, so the Magnepans do quite well with the genres I'm following at the moment.
 

LTig

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I've been listening to audio for 40+ years and am currently 57 years old. However, my ears about 5 years ago preferred a more detailed speaker and I owned 5 different pair of Focal speakers over the period of 1.5 years. Today, though, my ears tend to prefer a more relaxed sound - slightly rolled off highs, thicker mid-range, etc. I want a system that I can comfortably listen to music for 10+ hours each day - as I'm now teleworking during the Covid crisis. The Parasound A23+ amplifier had more upper end "bloom" that could be heard, while the mid-range was adequate and the low end was good. However, an opportunity arose for me to get a 2nd McIntosh amplifier, the MC352 for a super steal of a price, so I sprung on that option. My ears simply love the McIntosh sound - the slightly rolled off highs and the thicker mid-range presentation. To me, the McIntosh pairs better with the Magnepans than the Parasound A23+ did. However, that opinion in mine in where I currently stand, with respect to my listening preferences.

I did have the McIntosh amplifier paired up for a while with the Sonus Faber Venere 2.5 speakers. To me, it wasn't the best combination because the Venere 2.5 speakers were too rolled off. I think in that scenario, the Parasound A23+ would have shined. Also, the Focals that I owned (807V, 1007BE, 1027BE and 1037BE) over that period of time about 5 years back, I mainly used Peachtree and Emotiva amplifiers. Now, I think about how those speakers might have sounded with the McIntosh amplifiers that were built with the autoformer technology. I did have a brief experience a bit over a year ago with a McIntosh integrate amplifier - the MA5200 and a pair of Focal 1008BE speakers. That integrated amplifier was built on McIntosh's direct-coupled amplifier technology and not the autoformers. The sound? A little too thin for my liking, so I sold off those components.
I get the feeling that an amp with sufficient nominal power and some fancy tone controls could have been all you really need.
 

wje

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I get the feeling that an amp with sufficient nominal power and some fancy tone controls could have been all you really need.

I don't use tone controls, but do use Dirac Live! :cool:
 
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