MattHooper
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Thanks very much!
Yes, I was also thinking about your experience with the Mirage speakers. I understood that you had pleasant experiences using those speakers in stereo, which is another reason I was curious if someone had ever done a full surround system with such speakers. And if so whether the benefits of the spaciousness found in two channel continued on multi channel, or if at some point the amount of reflected sound in the room becomes a detriment.
I was glad to see you speak to that point in terms of the nature of comb filtering in halls and in rooms, and our interpretation of such filtering as a sense of spaciousness! That suggests to me that it would be possible for a surround Omni system to sound quite pleasant.
Though you also cautioned later that given a certain amount of reflectivity too much Omni sound could be become cacophonous.
So I guess it’s a case by case scenario depending on rooms and set up, etc. (as I mentioned, I am able to control some level of reflectivity in my room).
Indeed. I found all types of music on the omnis had an easy “ just appearing in space in front of me” quality. There seems something inherently, relaxing about it. Although some genres could sound a little bit more “ odd” because the presentation was a little bit different than the conventional speakers that I was used to (eg Rock/prog).
I wonder if this is why I find mono recordings generally off-putting to listen to when sitting in the sweet spot of a stereo system.
I see what you mean there. I don’t generally tend to associate imaging with surround speakers either.
However, it’s perhaps worth pointing out (for others) that surrounds can play their part in imaging. Certainly in Dolby Atmos, the various surround and height speakers are doing their role in providing object based sonic image location cues.
But even in regular channel based audio, the surrounds could still be contributing to imaging.
For instance in my work, when we are doing something like a helicopter takeoff on screen and then a flyover of the audience and away behind them, even in channel based mixes the sensation of the helicopter sound lifting
“ up” in front of you (higher than your LCR channels) is being helped by signals sent to the surround channels, as well of course during the panning flyover the audience.
So I guess that’s the sense in which one could talk about surround speakers doing imaging (and how they could also fail to image well).
You’ve actually brought up one of my pet peeves, which is when a mixer sends a sound hard panned to a surround channel. I don’t like that “ sound coming directly from that speaker” sensation. The sound becomes flattened. The better your surround system - as you say, the lack of resonances, continuity of timber, etc. - the less obvious this problem is. But here is where I suspect a fully Omni set up, properly deployed, could sound superior in floating the sound more free of speakers.
Thanks again for your reply.
(and the point you make about the adequacy of good 5.1 surround is also interesting).
As I describe in the 3rd edition - Section 7.4.6 - I purchased a pair of nearly omnidirectional Mirage M1s for my large, somewhat live, classical "concert hall" - the largest I could afford at the time. They did well in small room double-blind tests at the NRCC, and in this situation they were to simulate an orchestra: wide dispersion, lots of reflections, etc. combined with neutral timbre and very uniform dispersion (anechoic and in room measurements are shown). They worked well and did not draw attention to themselves. (I also had a home theater).
Yes, I was also thinking about your experience with the Mirage speakers. I understood that you had pleasant experiences using those speakers in stereo, which is another reason I was curious if someone had ever done a full surround system with such speakers. And if so whether the benefits of the spaciousness found in two channel continued on multi channel, or if at some point the amount of reflected sound in the room becomes a detriment.
I was glad to see you speak to that point in terms of the nature of comb filtering in halls and in rooms, and our interpretation of such filtering as a sense of spaciousness! That suggests to me that it would be possible for a surround Omni system to sound quite pleasant.
Though you also cautioned later that given a certain amount of reflectivity too much Omni sound could be become cacophonous.
So I guess it’s a case by case scenario depending on rooms and set up, etc. (as I mentioned, I am able to control some level of reflectivity in my room).
Indeed. I found all types of music on the omnis had an easy “ just appearing in space in front of me” quality. There seems something inherently, relaxing about it. Although some genres could sound a little bit more “ odd” because the presentation was a little bit different than the conventional speakers that I was used to (eg Rock/prog).
I wonder if this is why I find mono recordings generally off-putting to listen to when sitting in the sweet spot of a stereo system.
I see what you mean there. I don’t generally tend to associate imaging with surround speakers either.
However, it’s perhaps worth pointing out (for others) that surrounds can play their part in imaging. Certainly in Dolby Atmos, the various surround and height speakers are doing their role in providing object based sonic image location cues.
But even in regular channel based audio, the surrounds could still be contributing to imaging.
For instance in my work, when we are doing something like a helicopter takeoff on screen and then a flyover of the audience and away behind them, even in channel based mixes the sensation of the helicopter sound lifting
“ up” in front of you (higher than your LCR channels) is being helped by signals sent to the surround channels, as well of course during the panning flyover the audience.
So I guess that’s the sense in which one could talk about surround speakers doing imaging (and how they could also fail to image well).
You’ve actually brought up one of my pet peeves, which is when a mixer sends a sound hard panned to a surround channel. I don’t like that “ sound coming directly from that speaker” sensation. The sound becomes flattened. The better your surround system - as you say, the lack of resonances, continuity of timber, etc. - the less obvious this problem is. But here is where I suspect a fully Omni set up, properly deployed, could sound superior in floating the sound more free of speakers.
Thanks again for your reply.
(and the point you make about the adequacy of good 5.1 surround is also interesting).
