Magnepan LRS Speaker Review

[Newman]

Here is REW measurement of LRS in the room from listening position, nothing is wrong there.

Except that in room measurements hide a multitude of sins….

 

[Observer]

Except that in room measurements hide a multitude of sins….

At the end, every sold speaker got stuck in some room, and REW measure what owner actually hear there.
Sins are more correlated with box speakers, todays measurement methods are developed around them.

 

[Observer]

I own a set of LRS+ maggies. Very pleased with them, but could somebody explain to me why the buttons on the left speaker differ from the right?

This is normal, they are kind of damping 'buttons' which are there to "de-tune" panels and control/lower resonance.

 

[john65b]

why the buttons on the left speaker differ from the right?

Those buttons are tuning buttons....they should be relatively close in location on all maggies... some have more than one

Here is REW measurement of LRS in the room from listening position, nothing is wrong there.

You obviously used REW for Room Correction. Room Correction can make any speaker "fit better" in any room. Put up a raw graph without Room Correction and it will look a fair bit different...

Also what smoothing did you set? Low-ish (1:2?) smoothing is kinda misleading......

 

[Observer]

Those buttons are tuning buttons....they should be relatively close in location on all maggies... some have more than one


You obviously used REW for Room Correction. Room Correction can make any speaker "fit better" in a room. Put up a raw graph without Room Correction and it will look a fair bit different...

Also what smoothing did you set? Low-ish (1:2?) smoothing is kinda misleading......

I don't use any room correction (no EQ, no DSP), I just don't have them. My amp even don't have tone controls. I was curious how LRS will measure in my room. Before measurement, I setup (change positions) of speakers for a few weeks by ear, then I take this measurement.
Graph is with 1/3 smoothing , suggested by Rew (similar to psyhoacustic smoothing)

 

[john65b]

I read that recommended smoothing is VAR...I never use anything higher than 1:6 as (I beleive) it sugarcoats the results...

From Gerhard Westphalen regarding smoothing:

At the most basic level I look at the frequency response graphs to get a general idea of how a system is behaving. In this case I’m looking at the overall shape of the curve, any large bumps or dips, and where the system rolls off. I find this graph useful for finding dips that may need to be treated. This is mostly a starting point but it’s also useful when moving speakers around the room and trying to find the best spot. When looking at this graph it’s important to set the scale of the Y axis. If the range is too large, anything will look like a flat line. This is one way which many people try to deceive others. The smoothing is also important to set. If it’s set too high then again, anything will look like a flat line. I generally use 1/24 smoothing keeping in mind that many of the fluctuations shown with this smoothing aren’t audible. The psychoacoustic smoothing gives a better idea of what’s audible.

 

[Newman]

At the end, every sold speaker got stuck in some room, and REW measure what owner actually hear there.

Incorrect. What Amir measured more closely correlates with what owners actually hear above the bass. That’s psychoacoustics.

Sins are more correlated with box speakers, todays measurement methods are developed around them.

No, and no. Experts like Toole and Olive have tested panel speakers in listening tests and found that listener preferences correlate to their measurement methods just as much for panel speakers as box speakers.

==

One thing that Amir’s testing of a panel speaker has taught us, is that compared to any box speaker review on this site, there are more myths and nonsense that panel speaker owners have sucked up (from manufacturers and fellow enthusiasts) and are happy to recite as fake facts. A thorough reading of this thread with an open mind prior to posting would have taught them a lot, but no, they just pop in at the end and repeat the myths.

 

[Willem]

there are more myths and nonsense that panel speaker owners have sucked up (from manufacturers and fellow enthusiasts) and are happy to recite as fake facts.

Thanks for being so respectful of a fair number of serious listeners and highly respected professional users such as e.g. Tony Faulkner. I have used Quad electrostats for more than 45 years, and I like their virtues, and have learned to work around their limitations. Yes, they are a different taste, but no speaker is perfect. If they score badly in a poll, that does not mean they are bad in any objective sense, it only means that the people polled share the same taste. To the best of my knowledge the modern Quads have never been measured with a Klippel system, so I would be curious. However, these speakers are so different that there is no obvious reason why the Klippel system should necessarily produce meaningful results for them. Come on, be a bit more curious about the causes of these results.

 

[Observer]

Recommended smoothing is VAR...

Incorrect. What Amir measured more closely correlates with what owners actually hear above the bass. That’s psychoacoustics.

No, and no. Experts like Toole and Olive have tested panel speakers in listening tests and found that listener preferences correlate to their measurement methods just as much for panel speakers as box speakers.

==

One thing that Amir’s testing of a panel speaker has taught us, is that compared to any box speaker review on this site, there are more myths and nonsense that panel speaker owners have sucked up (from manufacturers and fellow enthusiasts) and are happy to recite as fake facts. A thorough reading of this thread with an open mind prior to posting would have taught them a lot, but no, they just pop in at the end and repeat the myths.

And how was measuring LRS started here?
Not by this thread LRS review, but with previous Amir post “How to Measure Magnepan?”
One day you are not sure how to measure panel speaker, few days later your measurement is the reference.
Pure Science!

Btw, my first post here was simple result how LRS measure in adequate room, nothing mythical.

 

[john65b]

OK, Reset here.

I, for one, am not bashing Magnepans. They are excellent speakers. All I am saying is these results do not surprise me, as the LRS is on the lower tier of their offerings. If anyone is totally content with their LRS, great!

But this less than expected LRS review SHOULD NOT dissuade anyone from looking into Maggies....

If it were my $650, I would head straight after a pair of used MGIIIa. The formal (Amir's) analysis of that speaker would be more of interest to me, and offer up the true Magnepan potential...thats all...

 

[NTK]

And how was measuring LRS started here?
Not by this thread LRS review, but with previous Amir post “How to Measure Magnepan?”
One day you are not sure how to measure panel speaker, few days later your measurement is the reference.
Pure Science!

Btw, my first post here was simple result how LRS measure in adequate room, nothing mythical.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you don't understand how the Klippel NFS works instead of purposedly misrepresent Amir's question (link to his thread)

How to Measure Magnepan LRS

Hello everyone. I am getting close to measuring the Magnepan LRS and wanted to get some feedback on how to stand it up for testing. It normally tilts back: It is easiest to measure it as picked as the legs can be horizontal on measurement stand. Second question is what the "tweeter...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Amir had little experience with how typically people setup their Magnepans. He was asking how the LRS should be stood up on his NFS and at what angles people usually listen to their Magnepans, so he can set the appropriate reference axis for his measurements. And he also wondered if he needed to install the tweeter resistor(s).

Amir's questions were not about if the NFS can measure panel speakers.

 

[Jim Creek]

I used to own a pair of Magnepan MMGs which preceded the LRS. They sounded great with certain types of recordings. “Kind Of Blue” sounded amazing thru them, but they did more poorly on orchestral music and many rock recordings. Eventually I sold them.

 

[drewdawg999]

I still love my Magnepan MMGs, in fact they are my main speaker now that I upgraded the stands to Magna Risers. Really opens up with fine detail, even on orchestral music, resolving power is strong. I think you lose some bass with the stands, but makes for easier sub integration which is needed for this speaker.

Yes the sweet spot is small, but I make sure to sit in it to maintain moments of wonder. And they need gobs of power, I'm using NC502MP for 500 watts. I've bought loads of stuff that Amir has recommended but have to differ from him in this case. Wish he could hear them on proper stands, I think it could make a difference. I love Maggies very much, they easily best my Vandersteen 2ce Sigs, and I'm afraid I'm currently priced out of recommended speakers. I'm stuck with my Maggies and that's just fine with me.

 

[Observer]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you don't understand how the Klippel NFS works instead of purposedly misrepresent Amir's question (link to his thread)

How to Measure Magnepan LRS

Hello everyone. I am getting close to measuring the Magnepan LRS and wanted to get some feedback on how to stand it up for testing. It normally tilts back: It is easiest to measure it as picked as the legs can be horizontal on measurement stand. Second question is what the "tweeter...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Amir had little experience with how typically people setup their Magnepans. He was asking how the LRS should be stood up on his NFS and at what angles people usually listen to their Magnepans, so he can set the appropriate reference axis for his measurements. And he also wondered if he needed to install the tweeter resistor(s).

Amir's questions were not about if the NFS can measure panel speakers.

I don't need "benefit of the doubt" or link, I read post long time ago.
Thera are also doubts in this post about measurement and planar speakers.... anyway, I can understand your POV.
How Klippel NFS works? It seems not at it's best with the planars/LRS. If result fully cope with reality, this thread will have maybe 5-6 pages, not 80. And LRS(+) will be long gone .... out of production.

 

[Vladimir Filevski]

There is nothing wrong with LRS, if you follow simple guidelines. LRS is not for very big room (then you need a bigger panel). It works nice in 26 m2 room if you setup them right and at least 70cm from front wall. Setup need some time and clean good power, but is not flawed speaker( as the author of review claim ).
... Here is REW measurement of LRS in the room from listening position, nothing is wrong there.

Room is very big factor, I have done many measurements in many customers rooms, while changing speaker positions in a search for the best frequency response at the listening position. But in many rooms, despite all efforts, results were not satisfactory, even with DSP (or software) correction. Room acoustic is a b**ch.
My friend had MG 0.6 (very similar to LRS), no guidelines helped in any way, we tried every possible position in the room (while measuring), but the results were nothing like your room measurements (they were very similar to Amir's measurements - bass sucks). LRS indeed are flawed, but you are very lucky to have such LRS-friendly room.
In despair, my friend ditch the MG 0.6 speakers in the attic, but I have very fond memories about their clean midrange and holographic sound stage.

 

[Observer]

Room is very big factor, I have done many measurements in many customers rooms, while changing speaker positions in a search for the best frequency response at the listening position. But in many rooms, despite all efforts, results were not satisfactory, even with DSP (or software) correction. Room acoustic is a b**ch.
My friend had MG 0.6 (very similar to LRS), no guidelines help in any way, we tried every possible position in the room (while measuring), but the results were nothing like your room measurements (they were very similar to Amir's measurements - bass sucks). LRS indeed are flawed, but you are very lucky to have such LRS-friendly room.
In despair, my friend ditch the MG 0.6 speakers in the attic, but I have very fond memories about their clean midrange and holographic sound stage.

I am maybe lucky with the room, but I am not the only one.
At first I use AB class amp(190W/4 ohms) then I was thinking about the sub. Later I try XTZ amp (less heat for summer) D Class which works well under 4ohms (>400W/2.7 ohm). Bass response is to me better with XTZ, similar to what you got from medium bookshelf speakers - but cleaner. I don't think much about the sub anymore.

 

[Vladimir Filevski]

Amplifiers have nothing to do with the frequency response of the loudspeaker (with tone controls on flat, of course). Measure the frequency response of LRS in your room with different amplifiers and you will get exactly the same frequency response.

 

[Observer]

Doubts are coming only from Magnepan cult followers (like you). Many owners (and listeners like me, too) of smaller Magnepan models are not completely satisfied.
If you are in doubt how Kilppel NFS works with planar speakers, look at this graph which adds floor reflection to the Klippel measurements:



Then, compare it with the real world LRS measurements in a room different of yours:


So how this is not sufficient to Magnepan cult followers to see that the LSR are flawed? Well, that is exactly the definition of cult followers.

People in their nature are almost never fully satisfied. I am not Magnepan fan or follower, I bought LRS out of curiosity and my plan was to try it and sell it. My second speaker was Sonus Faber GP (3.500 $), but after few moths of listening I sold Sonus Faber because I like LRS more.

 

[Observer]

Amplifiers have nothing to do with the frequency response of the loudspeaker (with tone controls on flat, of course). Measure the frequency response of LRS in your room with different amplifiers and you will get exactly the same frequency response.

Yeah I know, all amps sound the same
Here is comparison graph in bass region (both amps got no tone control) - result not "exactly the same"

 

[Vladimir Filevski]

Sonus Faber Grand Piano has elevated high-frequency band and other problems in the critical 2-4 kHz range, so there is no wonder why you like LRS more - your in-room response is very good, indeed.