Vuki
Senior Member
HiFi is for one person at a time. Everything else is compromise.Yes it looks as for head phonesthat magic sweet spot is not for more that one person at a time..
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Magnepan LRS Speaker Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
.. Okay opinion and experience for whatever systems youself had been through, myself had down the road reach some other experiences but have to rebuild system to get rid of the last bit of small discovered distortions before will feel for document such stuff for example via some in room recordings playing normal track material, that said had to admit system is not real time in it takes time to repair for time distortions .Vuki
Senior Member
Congrats! Longest sentence on the forum.
Joppe Peelen
Active Member
Wow ,,, i missed some replies for anyone that cares..
If i need to make any measurements of a big planar to proof or disprove a point, just tell me what to measure from what distance etc. i can whip out a quick one. (only in room responses, not feeling like going outside, or 3ms gates ones)
also got a 90 cm long ribbon tweeter (yes not long enough i know) so see what will happen if you make a nearfield measurement of such a long tweeter (a downward slope)
just let me know, they and my measurement jig (not as advanced, just REW and a Isemcon mic) are standing in the living permanent anyways
ps i liked my tweeters inwards always. i hate having not a stable phantom mid. tweeters outside is to much floating all over the place phantom.
these are the test speakers i can measure if you like. minidsp is connected so if i need to make changes let me know.
Audio recorder here was in my back on the cough , sitting almsot against the wall.. far from ideal dont mention it
for anyone that cares..If i need to make any measurements of a big planar to proof or disprove a point, just tell me what to measure from what distance etc. i can whip out a quick one. (only in room responses, not feeling like going outside, or 3ms gates ones)
also got a 90 cm long ribbon tweeter (yes not long enough i know) so see what will happen if you make a nearfield measurement of such a long tweeter (a downward slope
)just let me know, they and my measurement jig (not as advanced, just REW and a Isemcon mic) are standing in the living permanent anyways
ps i liked my tweeters inwards always. i hate having not a stable phantom mid. tweeters outside is to much floating all over the place phantom.
these are the test speakers i can measure if you like. minidsp is connected so if i need to make changes let me know.
Audio recorder here was in my back on the cough , sitting almsot against the wall.. far from ideal dont mention it
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Make one REW measurement sweep with both speakers active exactly at your listening position (my mic is between where my ears would be) save the measurement (that's a .mdat file), zip compress the file, and you can post it right here if less than 2 meg (if that restriction is still in effect).
I measure with the mic pointing at the phantom center.
(looked at the beginning of the file above - setup looks appropriate)
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Quick RTA from your video:
Choir around 5min
Strings around 6 min
Guitar Singer around 9min
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Seems to have a little lift in the 6-12kHz range...
Strings fill the midrange, pretty flat response there...
Maybe not much below 50Hz, but don't know if the content had it. Maybe not.
Sounds good to me, though.
Room might be a little bit "live", but, so what.
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PS: Oh... Not using a "measurement" microphone.
My handheld recorder is not very "accurate". Yours, ???
Choir around 5min
Strings around 6 min
Guitar Singer around 9min
---
Seems to have a little lift in the 6-12kHz range...
Strings fill the midrange, pretty flat response there...
Maybe not much below 50Hz, but don't know if the content had it. Maybe not.
Sounds good to me, though.
Room might be a little bit "live", but, so what.
---
PS: Oh... Not using a "measurement" microphone.
My handheld recorder is not very "accurate". Yours, ???
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Joppe Peelen
Active Member
So measuring mic at listening position where the audio recorder is sitting in the video ? since that will bring out the room modes allot
i already padded them by -8 db @ 51 hz for this recording but ok both active on my sofa? eq disabled ? (only used eq for room nodes 100 hz and down)
Joppe Peelen
Active Member
nope mine is not very accurate either
it drops below 80hz. (maybe even higher) and ignores top end 15Khz and up but yeah the ribbons tend to have a peak near 14 khz when they are not measured exact center. i cant say i measured with this zoom to see if it was in the best position. i just put it where i usually listened on top of the lack of 50 hz i removes 8 db at 51 hz, because it just swamps my listening experience as well as the measurement when done with the isemcon on top of that i still get some comb filtering from the back wall i think
but cant solve that for now
I measure where I listen.
I measure how I listen.
Usually measure left, and right, and both speakers, if being picky about something. The combination is sometimes different than the individuals. I have a hole at 48Hz when both speakers play, due to phase cancellation in my asymmetrical room, for example. Here, left, right, and both, with, and without EQ:
Sometimes EQ, No EQ comparison, but always centered* at the listening position unless there is some unusual experiment to be performed.
I'm not designing speakers - you are - so measure as necessary to meet your goals.
For "listening measurement", I use "listening position".
Too logical, huh.
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*centered - that's within a couple of millimeters of the acoustic center - REW can pin it down very precisely using Acoustic Timing Reference and comparing the arrival time of the direct sound from the left and right speakers.
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Joppe Peelen
Active Member
well to logical in some way. since i will never measure my speakers at listening position to have an idea how they perform, especially both active. since they will create artifacts where they both cross (one being slightly further away etc etc) . all speakers do. so top end will look worse. although the speaker might not be at fault. also low end is to much since partly thats my room (51 Hz is apparently a big node). so yeah i can make a measurement at the seating area
it just does not say much about the speakers or the way they should be measured . but as i offered i will do them. hopefully tomorrow!
Joppe Peelen
Active Member
dont know what kind of room you have but that looks scary flat... i dare to say ...... you room corrected the shit out of it ?
Uncorrected graph added above. It's boomy at "reference" levels.
Yes, I'm using a miniDSP OpenDRC-DI and AcourateDRC, with "flat" selected as a target.
My "goal" is to reproduce the electrical signal on the recording acoustically at the listening position. I get close. Compare the combined raw signal RTA from the source with the RTA response seen by the measurement mic of the EQ'd speakers at the listening position.
I don't get any complaints about the sound when it is heard, only about my method when it is explained.
Joppe Peelen
Active Member
thats fine with me, do as you please
(i wrote something like, i dare to say this is NOT a measurement at listening possition , at least not without any DSP interaction, removed that since it sounded harsh, but true in the end) everyone to there own for me it feels like cheating a bit when i make mine, i tend to not use any EQ or room correction. since i make most of my drivers myself. there might be a good reason why it is not perfect. so i can look into it some more. or try new ideas.{edit} thats some heavy EQ by the way.... you can nmake anything look good like this to be honest.
by the way weird that you have a rising top end ?
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A little there, not much. Maybe a sagging midrange would be a better description.
I can fix it.
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Joppe Peelen
Active Member
well its a weird trend
never seen that , to be honest. but then again. you can do as you like, and why not 
Why do you EQ your speakers to flat at the listening position? Wouldn't that make the sound unnatural? You're basically forcing the speaker to output boosted frequencies from the source material in order to make it flat at your listening position. That wouldn't be how sound normally travels to you from a source? I imagine your setup sounds very bright at the listening position.
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No you didn't ask that.
Ray has described before how he shoots for flat despite everyone saying measured flat in room is too bright. It suits him, and he also admits some high frequency hearing loss.
Maybe we could ask Sal for an independent appraisal as he has heard Ray's system. Or probably we shouldn't.
Not trying to speak for Ray, but I know his approach has been discussed a few times before.
Okay, maybe I wasn't supposed to ask! But it does go against all the science regarding loudspeakers on this Audio Science forum, so I thought it was pertinent.
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I was just funning with you a bit. You are correct it goes against what we know, but Ray knows that and prefers it the way it is.
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