• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Magnepan LRS Speaker Review

Vladimir Filevski

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Mar 22, 2020
Messages
561
Likes
734
Should there be some low end to hope for made below simulation of one floor boundary close to a line source using a Jeff Bagby spreadsheet and avarage of those 10 positions of a woofer piston to get a boundary correction filter, in the avarage grey curve..
View attachment 84497

Above filter added to spinorama of Magnespan LRS based Amir's spindata..
View attachment 84498
Very neat contribution by BYRTT! But it confirms LRS is still deficient in bass (or lower midrange (300 - 500 Hz) is still too strong).
Maybe some strong room modes can help the bass... or make things worse.
Many years ago I listened to MG 0.6. Yep, weak bass and tiny sweet spot, but oh so big sound stage... and midrange clean as a whistle.
 

Vuki

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Messages
342
Likes
393
Location
Zagreb, Croatia
I hesitated long and hard about adding a sub to my Quad 2805 stats, but in the end decided that in our new really large listening room and with so much digital source material with plenty of excellent deep bass I should try. I bought a B&W PV1d as that was/is claimed to be a very clean and precise subwoofer and one that also looks good in a modern interior. To be honest, I was disappointed, because the bass was woolly and boomy to the extent that even with a very low crossover frequency and reduced volume there were still issues. So were the skeptics right and is it virtually impossible to combine these ultra clean stats with a dynamic sub? I read more and more, and became aware of the issue of room modes and the different behaviour of dipole vs monopole speakers. So I decided on dsp room eq of the sub (with an Antimode 8033 in my case). This cleaned up the sound almost completely. Equalized bass is now almost as precise as from the stats, and with perfect integration (using a steep 4th order low pass filter and a low pass filter at some 35 Hz). Response now extends to about 15 Hz and this certainly adds to the realism (I added a steep low cut filter to cure a room mode at 13 Hz). So my conclusion is that the problem of integration is quite simply that dipoles are so much better at avoiding room modes.
I have since started measuring the system, and it is clear that some more work could be done. One of the reasons for getting an RME ADI-2 was that it gave me filters to also equalize the stats themselves a bit, and this improved in room response some more. The next step will have to be a second sub. I wonder if I need a second (expensive) PV1d, or whether a small and cheap second sub will also do (most of) the job, as was recently argued by Archimago. And if so, how small and cheap that sub can be.

What "ultra clean stats"? Toole said it's piece of shit for deluded audiophiles. :D
 

Willem

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
3,705
Likes
5,325
Do you have a reference? Whatever, let me put it this way: Philips loved them enough to use a special version for their classical recording, and Tony Faulkner does as well.
 

Joppe Peelen

Active Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2020
Messages
119
Likes
100
Location
Den Haag , Netherlands
Do you have a reference? Whatever, let me put it this way: Philips loved them enough to use a special version for their classical recording, and Tony Faulkner does as well.

i believe they used audiostatics for a while for there classic record label. ES RS series i believe. but it might be just a rumor not sure.
 

anmpr1

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Messages
3,739
Likes
6,445
Interesting, when I had Quad ESL-63s I came upon almost the complete set of the early mono Mercury Living Presence LPs. They sounded pretty good, and the discs were in pristine condition. I eventually played them using only one Quad. They sounded so much more right that way I always listened to them with one speaker only.

Monophonic recordings (IMO) sound much better played through one loudspeaker. Unfortunately, some digital oriented preamps (such as the Benchmark HGC) don't include a balance control. If you use a PC for a head then channel selection can be done easily in software. For analog sources it's not quite as easy--one way is to unplug one of the channel cable leads from the phono preamp or tape recorder. Not a very elegant solution.

For most people it's not an issue since they are not often listening to monophonic recordings. Or if they do, they just adapt to the two loudspeaker blend and don't worry about it. Even so, with analog sources it is often not possible to maintain a consistent phantom monophonic 'center image'. Typically a balance control is required. This is because analog sources (especially phono cartridges/records, but also magnetic tape) often have mismatched channel levels.

The original Quad was designed during the mono era. It suffered from the usual electrostatic horizontal dispersion problems, making the best listening spot fairly limited. Contrast it with corner horns, which spread the sound into the room, allowing for a less constricted monophonic listening area. The Quad and the Klipsch successfully survived into the stereo era--however because of the vertical dispersion limitations, Quads were typically spaced to create a triangular 'sweet spot', with the listener at the apex.

The Klipsch required two corners, often widely spaced (because of architectural constraints)--a geometry which could ruin any semblance of a center 'phantom' image. A work around was the placement of a third center speaker between the two corner horns, summing the left and right channel in one or another way. Paul had a circuit devised for that--I never heard how that sounded. It was a kludge, but what else could be done?

Getting back to the original Magneplanar, I never was able to figure out exactly how one was supposed to place it in the living area, what with its three panel 'room divider' form factor. Was it supposed to remain folded in a zig zag? Folded out in an arc?
 

Vuki

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Messages
342
Likes
393
Location
Zagreb, Croatia
Do you have a reference? Whatever, let me put it this way: Philips loved them enough to use a special version for their classical recording, and Tony Faulkner does as well.
It was sarcasm.
Dr Toole did some listening tests where the Quads were rated worse than much less praised rivals.
IMO for classical music they don't have many rivals.
 

Joppe Peelen

Active Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2020
Messages
119
Likes
100
Location
Den Haag , Netherlands
What "ultra clean stats"? Toole said it's piece of shit for deluded audiophiles. :D

it does sound a bit like Toole is the only person that knew what he was doing. I see him being referenced almost exclusively, besides Linkwitz but he gets mentioned in this thread as disagreeing with Toole and probable was not right.

quite clearly some people prefer a certain sound be it planar magnetic, open baffle, electrostatics , fullranges, rubanoides, ribbons or whatever, no matter if they fit Toole's ideas. not all that own electrostatics are audiophiles that splash cash and think they got golden ears..... maybe they enjoyed some parts of the speaker that others cant do. either right or wrong. we could also ditch speakers completely and get rid of the biggest problem that haunts our typical in door audio experience. room acoustics, by using headphones.
But still i prefer loudspeakers as many because of other reasons.

at least he has(or had ? i dont know actually) a clear statement :) its his way or it is.... well his way, by the looks of things quoted from him in this thread
 
Last edited:

Joppe Peelen

Active Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2020
Messages
119
Likes
100
Location
Den Haag , Netherlands
Do you have a reference? Whatever, let me put it this way: Philips loved them enough to use a special version for their classical recording, and Tony Faulkner does as well.


Quote from the Audiostatic website

"
Philips Classics monitor loudspeakers
World famous Philips Classics Recordings in their days used Audiostatic full range electrostatic loudspeakers as their monitor loudspeakers. Top reviews in the world's best audiophile magazines confirm that the Audiostatic design philosophy proved its worth.
"

wont say i agree, but here it is :)
 
Last edited:

Willem

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
3,705
Likes
5,325
Well Quad designed a special ruggerized version of the 63 for them which became the inspiration for the later stiffer incarnations. So I am not sure: diggetent monitors in digfetent lications or at diffetent times. Anyway, stats in both cases.
As for narrow listening positions. The esl 57 did indeed have that, among other limitations (still have mine but now in storage). The later 63 had a much wider listening position and the 2805 improved it on many scores again. They still have their weaknesses of which low frequency extension is one, although far less so than with earlier versions.
 
D

Deleted member 2944

Guest
That is not actually not what I was discussing, namely, whether "the steady-state low frequency response is a poor indicator of the quality of bass reproduction". I'm taking bass to mean the first few hundred Hz.

No intention to do so. I was recalling a thread discussion a couple of years ago, where it was said that Linkwitz in late life had some long discussions with LF gurus and changed his mind about the value of dipole bass below transition. I never saw, nor asked for proof of, those discussions, so the door is wide open for you there. But the thread discussion seemed earnest and dogma-free.
cheers
I chatted with SL numerous times about this through the years. Once exposed to dipole bass via Brian Elliot's system in 1988 he never changed his mind that this was the preferable approach to bass reproduction in a domestic environment. If you heard otherwise, you heard incorrectly

Anyways.........well off the topic of this thread.

Dave.
 

Blumlein 88

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
20,685
Likes
37,397
Quote from the Audiostatic website

"
Philips Classics monitor loudspeakers
World famous Philips Classics Recordings in their days used Audiostatic full range electrostatic loudspeakers as their monitor loudspeakers. Top reviews in the world's best audiophile magazines confirm that the Audiostatic design philosophy proved its worth.
"

wont say i agree, but here it is :)
Prior to that time they used ESL 63s. Quad made a rigid frame version for them. That later became the USA monitors version.
 

Joppe Peelen

Active Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2020
Messages
119
Likes
100
Location
Den Haag , Netherlands
Well Quad designed a special ruggerized version of the 63 for them which became the inspiration for the later stiffer incarnations. So I am not sure: diggetent monitors in digfetent lications or at diffetent times. Anyway, stats in both cases.
As for narrow listening positions. The esl 57 did indeed have that, among other limitations (still have mine but now in storage). The later 63 had a much wider listening position and the 2805 improved it on many scores again. They still have their weaknesses of which low frequency extension is one, although far less so than with earlier versions.

the 2805 uses the same delay rings and same panels as the ESL63 if i remember correct (they are all interchangeable).. you know of any comparison measurement i would be interested to see what they might did. awesome speakers by the way. sounded really nice.
 
Last edited:

Newman

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 6, 2017
Messages
3,500
Likes
4,323
I chatted with SL numerous times about this through the years. Once exposed to dipole bass via Brian Elliot's system in 1988 he never changed his mind that this was the preferable approach to bass reproduction in a domestic environment. If you heard otherwise, you heard incorrectly
I heard correctly. Perhaps rephrase your insults.
 

bobbooo

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 30, 2019
Messages
1,479
Likes
2,079
Well yeah. Assuming that compatible model. My point is that that is a philosophical question that is still totally open. It gets near religious talking about which if any of those models to use. Personally I think many worlds is a very weak model to choose. But I can accept that many others find it the most appealing of what is a pretty poor set of choices. Decoherence is a key part of the puzzle, but IMHO alone insufficient to close the problem. It shifts the goalposts more than answers the question.

Well the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics retains realism, determinism and locality. You have to give up at least one of those with pretty much every other interpretation, which is not an easy metaphysical choice to make.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom