Magico Ultimate vs Magico M6

[vavan]

Interesting also that the Salon 2 was preferred by most to the 228 BE although it has a smoother spinorama

btw did you see this?
It will probably come as no surprise that we felt that the Salon2s sounded more open, spacious, with clearer definition between instruments. The wide soundstage is one of the characteristics we love about Harman's speakers. With the F328Be, the sound seemed to emanate from the front of the speaker more clearly (this was most obvious in the side by side test). However, the F328Be did sound a bit tighter with more articulated bass on certain tracks

 

[andreasmaaan]

Sorry to disappoint, but at least the woofers are made by Morel. I know this because I've been there, in the very workshop where they're made. Don't know about the tweeters though.

I presume though that they are made to Magico's spec, i.e. they are not off-the-shelf drivers?

BTW, where is the Morel factory, just out of curiosity?

 

[Ilkless]

I presume though that they are made to Magico's spec, i.e. they are not off-the-shelf drivers?

BTW, where is the Morel factory, just out of curiosity?

Morel is an Israeli company. And Magico specs custom cones, certainly. In a similar vein, YG uses Scanspeak motors with their own aluminium cones machined from billet.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Morel is an Israeli company.

Yes, but I was curious as to whether their production was in Israel (or somewhere where wages are lower)?

 

[Roy_L]

Morel makes its drivers in Israel (in a town called Ness-Zionna) in a workshop full of old-grumpy (and very efficient) Russian technicians
Magico's drivers are of course made to Magico's specs, they aren't off-the-shelf components. Did Morel have any part in designing them? Maybe, don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me since they're designing and making drivers for ages.

The production of cabinets for its commercial speakers are outsourced to cheaper locations. Apparently, this is by far the most expensive part. According to them, if they wouldn't have outsourced the cabinet work, they would have stayed out of the consumer-grade speaker business completely (which is btw not far from what's happening anyway).

(P.S> I know all this because I used to work with them, been on a factory tour and have friends there to this day)

 

[tr1ple6]

perhaps MAGICO A3 VS. REVEL 228 BE conducted by harman where "All listeners rated Magico as their least favorite choice"

Thanks for this. The measurements provided are an interesting read

 

[paddycrow]

From an engineering perspective, aluminum is elastic with insignificant material damping. It is also isotropic, material properties are virtually identical regardless of orientation. It is dimensionally stable with varying humidity and very stiff compared to wood.

Wood and MDF are none of the above. It is more viscoelastic, orthotropic, and expands significantly with humidity. Great care must be taken in construction to allow it to move (expansion is not uniform). Screws holding drivers in place can come loose. Cabinet volume can change over time.

These are just some of the differences. None of them are insurmountable. There are countermeasures that can be taken in the design.

My primary issue with Magico speakers is they are so freaking heavy. I find the S5 Mk2 to be very enjoyable, but 220 lbs makes moving them an unpleasant task! Even the diminutive A3 is 110 lbs.

Speakers are also pieces of furniture and as a woodworker, I love a beautifully finished wood veneer cabinet.

PS- I have exchanged email with Mark!

 

[HenryB]

perhaps MAGICO A3 VS. REVEL 228 BE conducted by harman where "All listeners rated Magico as their least favorite choice"

That was the reason I bought the Revel.
Unfortunately, in my listening room, it was not the case. I can see how, perhaps, in short intervals, at a moderate level, one can prefer the Revel, they have more upper midrange presence, but over longer listening windows, especially at high SPL, they are tiring (I would also say that my A3 do not "sound dark and tubby", so one may wonder about the value of somewhat 'biased' testing). The Revel also sound more strained and grainy as SPL increases. I learned with my pocket, the Spinorama is not the be-all and end-all factor in SQ. YMMV.

 

[fredoamigo]

Hum, hum

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2794162120819136

 

[HenryB]

Strained and grainy? At what SPL and distance? These types of comments make me so wary of subjective comparisons.

Sure, whatever...

 

[HenryB]

Well then I can't take anything you say seriously.

Of course not, you made it clear on your first question.

 

[andreasmaaan]

That was the reason I bought the Revel.
Unfortunately, in my listening room, it was not the case. I can see how, perhaps, in short intervals, at a moderate level, one can prefer the Revel, they have more upper midrange presence, but over longer listening windows, especially at high SPL, they are tiring (I would also say that my A3 do not "sound dark and tubby", so one may wonder about the value of somewhat 'biased' testing). The Revel also sound more strained and grainy as SPL increases. I learned with my pocket, the Spinorama is not the be-all and end-all factor in SQ. YMMV.

When you say "biased", do you mean that because the subjects have been trained to prefer neutrality, they will be biased against a speaker like the A3 that has a less-neutral presentation? This seems a fair criticism IMO.

 

[Zvu]

You can make of course a wood enclosure having huge vibrations as well as a metal one having them at higher frequencies where the are psychoacoustically more audible and disturbing despite the smaller absolute oscillation amplitudes, like for everything its not just about on partial aspect like material but the total engineering like using FEM optimised stiffness (for example ribs) and damping.

Of course you can but why would you ? It is much more complicated to do what Vivid are doing with fiberglass/balsa/fiberglass composite than to make it out of mdf/ply. Genelec also made cabinets from plastic mixed with mdf dust but transferred to aluminium cabs.

 

[thewas]

The Genelec M series from this composite material (owned myself a pair of M040) was a clever environment friendly solution but unfortunately no commercial success probably due to wrong marketing as they didn't mark it as pro but for internet content producers although it didn't really measure worse than the 80x0 models.

 

[Zvu]

Agreed. I have some experience with Genelec M030. They really sounded best toed in.

 

[HenryB]

When you say "biased", do you mean that because the subjects have been trained to prefer neutrality, they will be biased against a speaker like the A3 that has a less-neutral presentation? This seems a fair criticism IMO.

When I say biased, I mainly mean conducting such tests without anyone from the other parties (and in this case, any party) involved, but HK guys. It can be a simple thing like ensuring product integrity. Magico products don't typically measure like that. I do not have a Spinorama, but running a sweep, I do not hear any resonances at 150Hz or 600Hz, and the RTA sure looks more balance (Yes, I know it is rudimentary, but that's all I have). Do we even know that this was a good working sample?

 

[andreasmaaan]

When I say biased, I mainly mean conducting such tests without anyone from the other parties (and in this case, any party) involved, but HK guys. It can be a simple thing like ensuring product integrity. Magico products don't typically measure like that. I do not have a Spinorama, but running a sweep, I do not hear any resonances at 150Hz or 600Hz, and the RTA sure looks more balance (Yes, I know it is rudimentary, but that's all I have). Do we even know that this was a good working sample?

It would be really interesting if you'd be willing/able to take gated measurements of one of yours. Since the deviations from neutral largely happen above a typical windowing frequency for in-room measurements (say, 500-1000Hz+), it would not be difficult to take reliable enough measurements with a decent mic. That would clear up the question quite straightforwardly I reckon.

 

[HenryB]

I do have a friend with a Clio, I may be able to get him involve, will check.

 

[andreasmaaan]

I do have a friend with a Clio, I may be able to get him involve, will check.

Would be really interested to see what you find, thanks

 

[Beave]

When I say biased, I mainly mean conducting such tests without anyone from the other parties (and in this case, any party) involved, but HK guys. It can be a simple thing like ensuring product integrity. Magico products don't typically measure like that. I do not have a Spinorama, but running a sweep, I do not hear any resonances at 150Hz or 600Hz, and the RTA sure looks more balance (Yes, I know it is rudimentary, but that's all I have). Do we even know that this was a good working sample?

HK = Hong Kong?