Magico How to kill a 300,000 sale in the audiophile world

[Els]

There are a whole lot of other speakers out there to buy. And I bet Magico will eventually get over your crtiticism.

Magico dealers have told me that Magico are not at all open to critique. They actualy have to follow strict instructions for their demos. They also restrict their dealer's ability to carry certain brands of speaker; I am not here to bash Magico, I said the man has a great musical culture and good crudentials as an engineer. I was commenting on the video info-mercial and the interview. This ends my comments on Magico, and Wish them many sucesfull years in this audiophile world.

 

[nerdoldnerdith]

If you buy the $300,000 speakers you will be so far away when you listen to them that your ears will probably be within a few degrees of tweeter level whether you're standing up or sitting down. It won't matter.

I don't know what you're criticizing though. The poor vertical off-axis performance outside the reference listening axis is a physical property of multi driver non-coaxial speakers that applies to the most expensive speakers as much as it applies to cheap speakers. It is called lobing, and is caused by the out of phase interaction of the waves from two speaker drivers. There is no way to engineer a speaker of this design that doesn't have it. A coaxial tweeter/midrange could be used, but those have other issues and Magico decided not to use them in their speakers. It doesn't make them worse necessarily.

FWIW I have heard those big expensive Magico speakers. They sound great, but not really any better than my Revel Salon2's. My friend is getting some M6's, and I would like to measure them to see how well they do.

 

[fpitas]

FWIW I have heard those big expensive Magico speakers. They sound great, but not really any better than my Revel Salon2's. My friend is getting some M6's, and I would like to measure them to see how well they do.

I'm not surprised. The Magicos are very nice and they measure well, but I suspect a lot of their boutique features are more for bragging rights than sonic improvement.

 

[Vacceo]

For that price, you can get the Ultimate Multichannel Room of Doom, including sound treatment. And it will probably sound better than the speakers in the same room untreated.

 

[kemmler3D]

Ultimately this boils down to the fact that any useful transducer we have in the audio world (mic or speaker) only moves in one dimension. It is a big pain in the ass to use one-dimensional transducers to recreate a full sound field, but I haven't seen a lot of better options yet. As a result - lobing, listening positions, and so on.

Someday we'll have something based on lasers for both recording and playback, capturing an entire volume of pressure variations in realtime and regenerating it in our rooms... but for now we have to sit where the Magico guy tells us if we want our $300K worth.

 

[fpitas]

Someday we'll have something based on lasers for both recording and playback, capturing an entire volume of pressure variations in realtime and regenerating it in our rooms... but for now we have to sit where the Magico guy tells us if we want our $300K worth.

Acoustic sharks with lasers?

 

[kemmler3D]

Acoustic sharks with lasers?

If you can spend $300K on a speaker then you can probably afford a shark tank in your listening room...

But in all seriousness, laser microphones to directly measure air pressure exist. I think they're just not very good yet.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/293098845_Opto-Acoustic_microphone_system_based_on_Fraunhofer_diffraction_principle

 

[Els]

Ultimately this boils down to the fact that any useful transducer we have in the audio world (mic or speaker) only moves in one dimension. It is a big pain in the ass to use one-dimensional transducers to recreate a full sound field, but I haven't seen a lot of better options yet. As a result - lobing, listening positions, and so on.

Someday we'll have something based on lasers for both recording and playback, capturing an entire volume of pressure variations in realtime and regenerating it in our rooms... but for now we have to sit where the Magico guy tells us if we want our $300K worth.

Good wishfull intentions. You bring up lobing. I think fear of lobing is way too present in speaker measurements and reviews.. Arnie Nudell one of the giants in speaker design, was not fearfull of the lobing affect, multy drivers speakers have much to offer with negligable drawbacks.

 

[kemmler3D]

Good wishfull intentions. You bring up lobing. I think fear of lobing is way too present in speaker measurements and reviews.. Arnie Nudell one of the giants in speaker design, was not fearfull of the lobing affect, multy drivers speakers have much to offer with negligable drawbacks.

Well, you can pretty easily hear it in the nearfield if you stand up / sit down / lie down and listen to the treble on most speakers. But for most listening situations I agree it's not the end of the world any more than any other limitation of speakers is.

 

[fpitas]

Most MTMs have substantial vertical lobing. Some people have argued for years that, from a theoretical basis, they can't possibly sound good. Yet many do.

 

[Schollaudio]

The weight would be enormous. Also I imagine aluminum has better damping.

SS and Nickle has higher densely. For 300K who cares about weight, it should weigh a lot anyway.

 

[Vacceo]

Most MTMs have substantial vertical lobing. Some people have argued for years that, from a theoretical basis, they can't possibly sound good. Yet many do.

Then, why are they so common?

 

[fpitas]

Then, why are they so common?

Because they work well? All those theoretical considerations turned out to be just that: theoretical.

 

[kemmler3D]

Because they work well? All those theoretical considerations turned out to be just that: theoretical.

I think this proves what most speaker designers seem to believe implicitly, and often say out loud too, which is that vertical directivity isn't nearly as important as horizontal. Unless, I guess, you live at the bottom of a well or something.

 

[fpitas]

I think this proves what most speaker designers seem to believe implicitly, and often say out loud too, which is that vertical directivity isn't nearly as important as horizontal. Unless, I guess, you live at the bottom of a well or something.

That, and the limited vertical directivity of an MTM in the far field can be a good thing for clarity etc. For years theater sound has been designed to limit vertical directivity for the same reasons.

 

[Scrappy]

If we are talking about a concert hall, then presentation does change depending on position. In a chamber performance, perhaps more so. How does "reasonable perimeter" compare in angular terms to the geometry you argue is too restrictive in a domestic listening room? How far are you varying the vertical axis? Also, are you assuming diffuse field conditions impossible in a small room?

I don’t like the “you’re at the concert” comparison. An acoustic performance of classical music is a product of the room, and rock n roll (my current parlance for other music) is a product of processing to make “hyper-real,” and also the room. I like linearity, but not as much as the music sounding like music.

 

[OldHvyMec]

SS and Nickle has higher densely. For 300K who cares about weight, it should weigh a lot anyway.

Do you have any idea what Nickel or SS would cost? You want a lower density preferably cast Iron or cast mag/aluminum alloy.
Flat, high quality aluminum needs dampening. You're better off with HDF and treating the interior surfaces with dampening material.
Aluminum will ring like a bell. It is not the best material, but it is non magnetic. Other that costing a lot. There is zero benefit.
If you go for some fancy inlays or something, aluminum is easy to work with. That is the main reason for using it. Polishes nice too.

Hardwoods are a lot harder to work with. So are composites. Very hard on bits..
I have 440lb speakers made with HDF, MDF. I'm adding a 60lb Butcherblock base with pods or air ride. I need to
get hold of Chuck Miller aka Miller Carbon to figure it out.

Those cabinet "Knock" like green concrete. RMx Elixir. BTW I have a whopping 6K in my speakers and they are my 2nd pair. I think there
might be 7-8 more pairs left in the world. There was only 16 pairs made. I think they were 15K new in 2012.

I spent 15 years messing with IRS Betas. They were a lot of fun for the money. 12K I think. I sold them for 15K. I need a Warehouse.

300K
900K

Not even if I had the money. BUT if someone else wants to, that is their business. I have mirrors in my house to keep me somewhat in check.

Different subject:

MTMs I have never owned a pair.

I want to make a final pair of stand-mounts for my final speaker build. I'd like to make 10-12 pairs. Ribbon Tweeter, Neo 10 planar mid and a
coupler for the bass system. I could work out the bugs before I kick. Then screw it. Call 911 and tell them you have a gun. Just for fun. LOL
I'll see you in heaven if thing don't work out.

Regards