Magic Sponge Sound Treatment

[Elitzur–Vaidman]

It's my understanding that open-cell melamine foam is one of the more effective sound treatment materials, but it seems like melamine sheets are incredibly expensive. Aside from the labor involved, is there any reason I couldn't just buy 1,000 "magic eraser" sponges and use them to "tile" my ceiling? For under $200, this would get me the equivalent of 88 square feet of 1" thick melamine.

 

[Keith_W]

Link doesn't work.

 

[Elitzur–Vaidman]

Link doesn't work.

Weird, it works when I click on it.
This is what I'm referencing:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256802146920203.html

 

[kemmler3D]

2 things to consider before you do this:

1) Is the density the same? That strongly affects the effectiveness of absorptive materials.

2) Is the magic sponge fire retardant? You don't really want to cover your ceiling in flammable stuff.

When I used to sell polyurethane acoustic foam, the main cost drivers were: 1) Was the foam piece stamped or cut? (egg crate is stamped, pyramid is cut) and 2) was it treated to be flame retardant? A stamped, non-flame retardant piece would provide the same sound absorption at around 1/10 the cost, but at some risk to the user.

 

[ppataki]

side from the labor involved, is there any reason I couldn't just buy 1,000 "magic eraser" sponges and use them to "tile" my ceiling?

In my opinion, it shall work just fine
I use magic sponge inside all my new DIY speaker cabinets that I make
Melamine has an extremely low density and a very high sound absorption coefficient so it shall work in any case

 

[RayDunzl]

Well, that could be one way to clean up the sound.

*waits impatiently for the results of the flame test

 

[Elitzur–Vaidman]

Thanks for the sanity check everyone! I'm definitely going to give this a shot, but I probably won't order for a month or so. Assuming these are actually melamine (and why wouldn't they be?), they should be fire-resistant.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Info on the parameters. Apparently relatively safe in regards to fire.

Melamine Foam: An Effective Sound Absorber for Reducing Noise Levels and Echo. - FoamTech

The acoustic foam is used in studio and music theaters whereby melamine foam makes the sound smooth and soft. It illustrate that melamine foam is made up

melaminefoamtech.com

 

[kyuu]

2) Is the magic sponge fire retardant? You don't really want to cover your ceiling in flammable stuff.

Quoting Wikipedia:

Naturally lightweight, melamine foam is also used as insulation for pipes and ductwork, and as a soundproofing material for studios, sound stages, auditoriums, and the like. One advantage of melamine foam over other soundproofing materials is that it's considered not flammable. Melamine foam’s fire rating is Class A/Class 1 in the United States and ULCS-102 for Canada. If heated to 465 °F (241 °C), the foam shrinks, and collapses.

Magic erasers are melamine foam. So seems like it should be fine.

 

[Petrushka]

It's my understanding that open-cell melamine foam is one of the more effective sound treatment materials, but it seems like melamine sheets are incredibly expensive. Aside from the labor involved, is there any reason I couldn't just buy 1,000 "magic eraser" sponges and use them to "tile" my ceiling? For under $200, this would get me the equivalent of 88 square feet of 1" thick melamine.

Or buy 4 sq foot sheets that are peel and stick. Twice the price, but a lot less work.

 

[restorer-john]

You want to cover the ceiling in your listening room with domestic cleaning melamine foam?

That stuff is not exactly friendly to the body and we have no idea how that foam will break down over time. You don't want to be breathing in microscopic melamine particles down the track if you want to live a long and healthy life.

 

[kemmler3D]

As @restorer-john points out you'll want to be confident about the long-term stability of this stuff...

Also, covering that much square footage of pure velocity absorbers might knock down the highs too much and make the space too dead...

Either way I'd be covering this with cloth for appearances, and perhaps with a bit of fear of floating microplastic particles.

Also, I have to ask - you can get 2" thick rockwool for about the same money. https://www.acoustimac.com/oc7032 Why bother sticking together a million sponges instead of just going the normal route?

 

[Elitzur–Vaidman]

You want to cover the ceiling in your listening room with domestic cleaning melamine foam?

That stuff is not exactly friendly to the body and we have no idea how that foam will break down over time. You don't want to be breathing in microscopic melamine particles down the track if you want to live a long and healthy life.

As @restorer-john points out you'll want to be confident about the long-term stability of this stuff...

Also, covering that much square footage of pure velocity absorbers might knock down the highs too much and make the space too dead...

Either way I'd be covering this with cloth for appearances, and perhaps with a bit of fear of floating microplastic particles.

Also, I have to ask - you can get 2" thick rockwool for about the same money. https://www.acoustimac.com/oc7032 Why bother sticking together a million sponges instead of just going the normal route?

I live in a fairly small apartment, so my only installation options are things that can be stuck to the ceiling and easily removed later. My room has semi-exposed beams that create 3" deep "pockets in the ceiling. My plan would be to stick the blocks onto the ceiling with some adhesive dots, and then cover the pockets with a fabric that I can just staple to the beams.

This wouldn't be a super long-term installation, but I have neighbors above me who recently got a puppy and I'm hoping this would help (in addition to treating my room's acoustics somewhat). It's not the greatest apartment, but it's priced way below market, so I'm here until I finish my mba. (it's a nonsense degree IMO, but I need it for certain career advancement opportunities)
I also have a hepa air filter running in the room most of the time, so I don't think particles/decomposition should be a huge concern.

 

[kemmler3D]

I live in a fairly small apartment, so my only installation options are things that can be stuck to the ceiling and easily removed later. My room has semi-exposed beams that create 3" deep "pockets in the ceiling. My plan would be to stick the blocks onto the ceiling with some adhesive dots, and then cover the pockets with a fabric that I can just staple to the beams.

This wouldn't be a super long-term installation, but I have neighbors above me who recently got a puppy and I'm hoping this would help (in addition to treating my room's acoustics somewhat). It's not the greatest apartment, but it's priced way below market, so I'm here until I finish my mba. (it's a nonsense degree IMO, but I need it for certain career advancement opportunities)
I also have a hepa air filter running in the room most of the time, so I don't think particles/decomposition should be a huge concern.

Seems like you've thought about this... not much more to say except post before / after REW measurements if you have the time!

 

[Blumlein 88]

The stuff I read, where it is used for this purpose indicates it is more stable and safe than other foam.

 

[kyuu]

The only real concern is microplastics. Those are ubiquitous in the environment now, and sticking some to the ceiling isn't likely to increase his exposure much above the baseline really. It should be pretty stable, until he goes to remove it later anyway.

I have to agree with kemmler though... why not just use some rockwool? You can easily cut that to fit between those beams, and it'll likely stay there just by friction as long as you cut it right. Or you can staple up some string to help keep it place if needed.

 

[Elitzur–Vaidman]

I have to agree with kemmler though... why not just use some rockwool? You can easily cut that to fit between those beams, and it'll likely stay there just by friction as long as you cut it right. Or you can staple up some string to help keep it place if needed.

Aesthetics and flexibility tbh. I can add however many bricks I need without overdamping the room and I don't necessarily need to cover 100% of them with fabric. Rockwool I'd be more immediately concerned with fibers/extra dust. I just ordered a test pack and some adhesive dots off amazon. If they fall off I'll reconsider rockwool

 

[kyuu]

Fair enough. Let us know the results!

 

[alex-z]

88ft of coverage, but at only 1" thickness you aren't getting broadband absorption.

Something like 3.5" mineral wool has significantly better performance per dollar, unlike melamine foam it will actually have meaningful impact in the 200-1000Hz region.

 

[Elitzur–Vaidman]

I decided to bite the bullet and ordered sheets of melamine foam off of Alibaba.

The estimated delivery date isn't until late October, but I think I ordered enough to get about 60ft of coverage at 4" thickness for about $200. I'm hoping to confirm the details of what I ordered before then.

It'll be much easier to cut these to size and wrap everything with acoustically transparent fabric. I might even be able to friction fit the panels I make in between my exposed beams. I'll make a separate build thread once things arrive.