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macOS vs. Windows vs. Linux

Which OS do you prefer?

  • macOS

    Votes: 88 40.0%
  • Windows

    Votes: 65 29.5%
  • Linux

    Votes: 67 30.5%

  • Total voters
    220
Intel are following the money in that more users of their hardware are using linux than before. Meanwhile they've discontinued a load of their linux-facing open source efforts over the last year or so, so they're following the commercial users of their hardware on linux, not the new users.

The ASUS sensors are community reverse engineering, not anything contributed by ASUS. They're at least engaging with fwupd.org now, a long way behind Lenovo, Dell and HP let alone a small player like Framework, but still a step in the right direction.
Yeah... Asus.... The base for my cancelled Blender box plan was Asus ProArt, and I could't really make out how much trouble the motherboard could cause.... So I left that open and not fully explored hoping for safer options....

More or less every option was on the table in the turnaround operation at Intel, so yes, it is all about money. Like it is for most.

Not my cup of tea, but the Kubuntu / KDE LTE deal could be interesting, in particular in the German (or European) market, where the chase is on due to the Euro/US split.
 
I have trying to install Linux via ventoy pxe server to client thinkpad t400. The t400 has the legacy BIOS. EOS, Debain testing(netinstall) and Kira Linux all failed. Now trying to install Arch from via the install page again via ventoy. Currently pacstraping base system. Hope it the 'old guy' boots up ! My T61 works with EOS quite well.
 
I just found out about this website, DistroSea. It allows users to test out various Linux distributions online via their web browsers. It is slow, and you wait in a queue for your turn to test a distro (my wait was less than 5 minutes). But, some may find it useful for users investigating Linux, but don't know which distribution is right for them.


Once someone finds something that interests them, it probably would be best to download that distro's .iso file, copy it to a USB thumb drive using something like Etcher, and boot their computer from the thumb drive to test it out more thoroughly. Or, if they have virtualization software on their computer, they can spin it up in a VM.
 
I just found out about this website, DistroSea. It allows users to test out various Linux distributions online via their web browsers. It is slow, and you wait in a queue for your turn to test a distro (my wait was less than 5 minutes). But, some may find it useful for users investigating Linux, but don't know which distribution is right for them.


Once someone finds something that interests them, it probably would be best to download that distro's .iso file, copy it to a USB thumb drive using something like Etcher, and boot their computer from the thumb drive to test it out more thoroughly. Or, if they have virtualization software on their computer, they can spin it up in a VM.
https://www.ventoy.net/en/doc_start.html is great for running straight from the ISO image, there is no need to reformat the USB drive, you just copy the ISO to the ventoy removable drive and pick the ISO from the subsequent boot menu.
 
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https://www.ventoy.net/en/doc_start.html is great for running straight from the ISO image, there is no need to reformat the USB drive, you just copy the ISO to the ventoy removable drive and pick the ISO from the subsequent boot menu.
IIRC you have to turn off secure boot for ventoy to work. Or self-sign and add your key to the allowed list in EFI, but that part causes problems with some implementations.
 
I just found out about this website, DistroSea. It allows users to test out various Linux distributions online via their web browsers. It is slow, and you wait in a queue for your turn to test a distro (my wait was less than 5 minutes). But, some may find it useful for users investigating Linux, but don't know which distribution is right for them.

There are also in-browser VMs like V86 - no need to wait your turn because it runs locally, although depending on your distro choice and connection speed the machine image might take a while to download.
 
Many roads to Rome,

In general one tend to have a better impression of an aesthetically well polished distro, and light distrohopping would give a potential user a first impression, a basic idea of how it looks and how to move around / do some modifications and so on, but one doesn't really get to the goodies or caveats.... Buzzing about doesn't really give the potential user any idea about how to live with it, and living with it would be the natural objective...

A general user without need for targeted distros (gaming/graphics/whatever) would probably get the most out of it by picking one of the mature, popular cover it all distros. Ubuntu, Mint and similar. The user gets to try out "all" desktop environments, all the mainstream applications, and develop a relationship + preferences over time. You don't really get that by distro hopping, and you won't get that from the solution I prefer/advocate - a targeted clean single DE installation.

Within Ubuntun/Mint or similar distros with many years on their back, the user will find the useful, the useless, the preferred and the annoyances, and when that's sorted out, that would be the time to explore potentially better suited alternatives -pointed towards preferences and actual usage. There is nothing wrong in being content with the initial choice. Most users will be fine, that's why these distros are popular and have a large userbase, which is helpful. It might however be advantageous to do a clean reinstall with only what you use if you have experimented and explored a lot with the initial install.

If already having a fairly good idea of what you want eg a specific desktop, get properly aquaintained with that one before mucking about with the rest. Establish clear references to compare the lot with.

If exploring on old hardware, Linux tend to get the best out of the hardware, but it doesn't add cores or threads to the CPU, better wireless or increase the graphics capacity. Linux on old hardware isn't miraculous. But I certainly feels that way. Before stressing the limits of the hardware proper.

Hardware limitations aren't Linux exclusive or a old hardware thing though, banted 8gb Windows and Mac Neos are rather fresh deliberate limitations too. Am aware of educational institutions who will not offer Neos to their pupils and students due to the low specs.
 
IIRC you have to turn off secure boot for ventoy to work. Or self-sign and add your key to the allowed list in EFI, but that part causes problems with some implementations.
Ventoy has it's own key, you just need to add it to UEFI the first time you use it on the PC. I've not had any issues installing Windows, Proxmox, OpenMediaVault, Ubuntu, Mint, pfSense, etc. but I do know that some installers can have issues with it.
 
I can be pretty tolerant of UI differences but have a low tolerance for debugging hardware compatibility issues. Am trying Linux on older hardware and have often been impressed overall, but still find problems with multimedia support (audio and video drivers and codecs) I mentioned a preference for KDE but, the best machine I have would boot the desktop fine but struggle with simple aspects like displaying the Dolphin file manager. All these computers were Windows without any annoying incompatibilities.
 
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but the find problems with multimedia support (audio and video drivers and codecs)
The issue is that NVidia drivers and multimedia codecs are not all free and open source software (FOSS).

Linux Mint, though, provides an option to install non-FOSS codecs during setup and includes a GUI driver manager to install drivers that still may be missing after installation. Some distros even have download versions specifically taylored to whether the GPU is NVidia.

Some distros (e.g., Fedora) make those tasks a bit more complicated. Still doable, but it may require a little bit of research and entering commands in the terminal. I find that ChatGPT can help so long as I provide detailed information (e.g., specific OS and version, specific hardware models, etc.).
 
I can be pretty tolerant of UI differences but have a low tolerance for debugging hardware compatibility issues. Am trying Linux on older hardware and have often been impressed overall, but still find problems with multimedia support (audio and video drivers and codecs) I mentioned a preference for KDE but, the best machine I have would boot the desktop fine but struggle with simple aspects like displaying the Dolphin file manager. All these computers were Windows without any annoying incompatibilities.
what older hardware are you trying Linux ? Thinkpads of all ages seem to work well with Linux and KDE.
 
Many roads to Rome,

In general one tend to have a better impression of an aesthetically well polished distro, and light distrohopping would give a potential user a first impression, a basic idea of how it looks and how to move around / do some modifications and so on, but one doesn't really get to the goodies or caveats.... Buzzing about doesn't really give the potential user any idea about how to live with it, and living with it would be the natural objective...

A general user without need for targeted distros (gaming/graphics/whatever) would probably get the most out of it by picking one of the mature, popular cover it all distros. Ubuntu, Mint and similar. The user gets to try out "all" desktop environments, all the mainstream applications, and develop a relationship + preferences over time. You don't really get that by distro hopping, and you won't get that from the solution I prefer/advocate - a targeted clean single DE installation.

Within Ubuntun/Mint or similar distros with many years on their back, the user will find the useful, the useless, the preferred and the annoyances, and when that's sorted out, that would be the time to explore potentially better suited alternatives -pointed towards preferences and actual usage. There is nothing wrong in being content with the initial choice. Most users will be fine, that's why these distros are popular and have a large userbase, which is helpful. It might however be advantageous to do a clean reinstall with only what you use if you have experimented and explored a lot with the initial install.

If already having a fairly good idea of what you want eg a specific desktop, get properly aquaintained with that one before mucking about with the rest. Establish clear references to compare the lot with.

If exploring on old hardware, Linux tend to get the best out of the hardware, but it doesn't add cores or threads to the CPU, better wireless or increase the graphics capacity. Linux on old hardware isn't miraculous. But I certainly feels that way. Before stressing the limits of the hardware proper.

Hardware limitations aren't Linux exclusive or a old hardware thing though, banted 8gb Windows and Mac Neos are rather fresh deliberate limitations too. Am aware of educational institutions who will not offer Neos to their pupils and students due to the low specs.
Good post. I would recommend for new users: Debian or EndeavorEOS rather then Ubuntu based distros.
 
The issue is that NVidia drivers and multimedia codecs are not all free and open source software (FOSS).

Linux Mint, though, provides an option to install non-FOSS codecs during setup and includes a GUI driver manager to install drivers that still may be missing after installation. Some distros even have download versions specifically taylored to whether the GPU is NVidia.

Some distros (e.g., Fedora) make those tasks a bit more complicated. Still doable, but it may require a little bit of research and entering commands in the terminal. I find that ChatGPT can help so long as I provide detailed information (e.g., specific OS and version, specific hardware models, etc.).

Yes, am quite aware of the options. Linux Mint does have some of the best polish of the distros I have tried but no KDE. I tried Manjaro recently and it has a boot option for proprietary drivers. Unfortunately, did not fix KDE on my preferred box.

In the 80s, was writing major shell scripts. Now, am less interested in having to do command line intervention. In troubleshooting the display color issue, I did resort to some commands. but they were mainly CCPed into the terminal window. I want the OS to simply work, and I get to spend my time with the apps I want!
 
what older hardware are you trying Linux ? Thinkpads of all ages seem to work well with Linux and KDE.

Mostly older HP and Dell desktops. One is a MusicVault PC and it is built like a tank. After installing SSDs, they all run Windows apps well. I have more than enough hardware and just trying to save some of it from an early grave.
 
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Yes, am quite aware of the options. Linux Mint does have some of the best polish of the distros I have tried but no KDE. I tried Manjaro recently and it has a boot option for proprietary drivers. Unfortunately, did not fix KDE on my preferred box.

In the 80s, was writing major shell scripts. Now, am less interested in having to do command line intervention. In troubleshooting the display color issue, I did resort to some commands. but they were mainly CCPed into the terminal window. I want the OS to simply work, and I get to spend my time with the apps I want!
You might try Kubuntu.

If that doesn't work for you, you are in a bit of a conundrum.
 
Check out the following website where you can run old versions of Mac operating systems in your browser:

 
Good post. I would recommend for new users: Debian or EndeavorEOS rather then Ubuntu based distros.
Endeavour is a good start if the user specifically wants to get started with Arch. Skips the main Arch threshold - the installation - and makes it even easier to keep up to date with some neatly wrapped up scripts. But that is only if the user specifically wants Arch.

Regardless of approach to Arch (which Endeavour in all essence is) Endeavour still needs to be treated as if it were Arch proper, and I find that I always have to check the repo outbid I already have filtered on basis upon my location when they do updates to the relevant packages specific to Endeavour.

The user still has to go to the source - Arch and Arch wiki - as one REALLY should A: Learn Pacman B: Treat AUR less lightly than Endeavour and C: understand that they on essentially rare occasions will play with VI/Nano/Kate (Kate is an easy option for beginners) or equal to edit config files.

For instance when KDE made that SDDM Wayland change or:

I have no trouble with it as I see this as an advantage and the Pacman section at Arch Wiki is great (as most of the content at the Wiki).


But I would never suggest Endeaveour or Arch to someone blank on Linux as a starter unless they are specifically interested in Arch or wants more out of it than being a regular user swapping Mac or Win to carry on with their business. I would advise against.

As far as Debian is concerned, I haven't used it since I had some hardware issues with Ubuntu and replaced the Ubuntu kernel with one from Debian thus it's not for me to say, but the likes of Mint are tuned towards the users we are talking about here, I somehow believe Debian isn't, Arch certainly not.
 
Much really depends on the user; how technically proficient is the user and how much time the user is willing to spend learning Linux? For someone who already knows their way around a computer, wants to learn about Linux, and has the available time, Arch is a great teaching tool. But, for someone new to Linux who just wants to get up and running quickly and has no interest in reading the Arch Wiki, it is not the right choice. Arch based distributions like CachyOS and EndeavourOS can make it a bit easier. But, the user should understand that probably they are going to end up spending more time in the terminal as compared to something like Linux Mint.

I like Debian. Debian Stable is the most stable desktop Linux operating system I have used. If I need newer packages than what are in the repository, I use flatpaks, and that serves my purpose. I'm not sure whether it is the right choice for someone adverse to using the terminal, though.
 
Much really depends on the user; how technically proficient is the user and how much time the user is willing to spend learning Linux? For someone who already knows their way around a computer, wants to learn about Linux, and has the available time, Arch is a great teaching tool. But, for someone new to Linux who just wants to get up and running quickly and has no interest in reading the Arch Wiki, it is not the right choice. Arch based distributions like CachyOS and EndeavourOS can make it a bit easier. But, the user should understand that probably they are going to end up spending more time in the terminal as compared to something like Linux Mint.

I like Debian. Debian Stable is the most stable desktop Linux operating system I have used. If I need newer packages than what are in the repository, I use flatpaks, and that serves my purpose. I'm not sure whether it is the right choice for someone adverse to using the terminal, though.
Using Arch (Endeavour install), I don't really spend much time at all using terminal as the update script wrap covers both Pacman and Aur (Yay), and it is basically typing the password and pressing enter. In my opinion, when Arch is set up to do what the user wants it to do, it is low maintenance and lightfooted.

But there is no way around using terminal every now and then, when Arch warns about changes which unattained will break the system. And the system will eventually break if the user don't read the frontpage - archlinux.org - before every update. I keep my installation as lean and with as few packages as I can, thus the exposure is reduced by fewer package updates requiring intervention. But even with that philosophy I would have suffered breakages if I didn't read archlinux.org prior to every update. And that is for an Endeavour installation. Sure, Endeavour posts these warnings, but that works like an abstraction layer with potential delays, one should stick to the source - Arch - who provides the info timely, as long as Endeavour stays as it is now. Might be they will evolve and avoid these typical Arch caveats, but in my view they are not there now.

As for Endeavour (which I believe is healthy and good), it is still fresh, and fresh distros comes and goes. They attract developers/maintainers who might stick around for the duration, or they loose interest, moves on, and the distro becomes poorly maintained and dies out. Hopefully, they are in it for the duration, but many derivates have dips and peaks where the quality varies. For now, I'd argue Endaveour is good indeed.

My installation is lean, but I haven't done the stuff I used to do like moving the disk cache to ram and all sorts of other tuning, thus it is pretty standard.

I know you are aware of these things Terry, but potential new linux users might find it useful and avoid caveats they don't really need and don't have to experience. Unless they want to....

I consider your advice - Get Mint to explore Linux for the first time - neutral, pragmatic and good indeed.
 
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