Macbook sets Midi settings to -41db when using Tidal exclusive mode! too quiet.

[Beershaun]

Hey all,
I'm trying to understand if this is a bug or a feature. I have recently switched to a Macbook pro for my work laptop from Windows. The volume in my headphones has dropped from normal listening levels to almost inaudible coming out of my Topping L30 II amp. I have it normally set at low gain with the volume knob at ~11 o-clock driving my AT-M50x headphones. At the new lower level I have to adjust the gain switch to high gain mode and turn the volume know to ~1 oclock to get back to normal listening level.

I have narrowed this down to the Mac Audio MIDI Setup app settings dropping the Primary Stream output level to -41db (sometimes -22db) whenever Tidal Exclusive mode is engaged. The Audio MIDI Setup primary stream output settings should be -0db providing the full output signal to my Topping DAC. And when I turn off Tidal's Exclusive mode and I crank the primary stream outpu setting back up to full output (-0db) the volume to my headphones returns to normal (same as using previous Windows laptop).

So:
1)My advice is, if anyone else is experiencing the same problem with using Tidal on a Mac, turn off Exclusive mode and open the Midi app and crank up the output back to full signal (-0db).

2) Has anyone figured out a fix for this problem? I would prefer to use exclusive mode because the Mac resamples everything to a fixed bit depth and sample rate.

Thanks!

 

[Cbdb2]

I dont get it. MIDI is not a audio signal. Its a control signal for digital instruments (syths, drum machines) . Changing midi settings should mot effect your audio output. Are you sure other audio settings are not changing as well?

 

[Beershaun]

Yes you are right. In this case Apple has a native MacOS App called "Audio MIDI Setup" used for the purposes your described. It can control the digital input and output signal strength.

Here are two screenshots to illustrate what settings in that App are getting changed due to turning on Tidal Exclusive mode.

 

[staticV3]

definitely a bug, though not sure whether it's on the side of Tidal or Apple.

Try contacting Apple support first, they're usually very competent and quick to respond.

 

[voodooless]

Did you enable force volume?

https://support.tidal.com/hc/en-us/articles/28548110049681-Exclusive-Mode

 

[Cbdb2]

Yea thats the audio level, nothing to do with MIDI. That is strange behavior Looks like tidal is doing something. I know nothing about tidal.

 

[Beershaun]

Sent a feedback to Apple. Interested to see what the response is.

 

[Beershaun]

Did you enable force volume?

https://support.tidal.com/hc/en-us/articles/28548110049681-Exclusive-Mode

Tried it with it turned on and off. No change.

 

[Beershaun]

Yea thats the audio level, nothing to do with MIDI. That is strange behavior Looks like tidal is doing something. I know nothing about tidal.

Yes I understand. I updated my original post to remove the confusion in how I worded it.

It is the output stream in Apple's "Audio MIDI setup" app that is incorrectly being set to a low output level. Don't know why though. And it is actually what is controlling the USB signal output strength. E.G. when I put Tidal into exclusive mode and the volume drops, the primary output stream setting in the Audio MIDI Setup drops to -41db. Then when I turn Tidal exclusive mode off, I have to go back into that app to turn the volume back up to full (0db) and the volume comes back. None of the other volume settings fix the problem (apple sound volume or Tidal volume).

 

[voodooless]

Tried it with it turned on and off. No change.

Did you play content after enabling it? Maybe it only changes things once it start the audio?

Can you change the gain in the Audio MIDI control when exclusive mode is enabled? If so, does it persist?

 

[astr0b0y]

Try setting the e30 to 24-bit.

 

[SKBubba]

Do you have volume normalization on in tidal?

 

[Palmer]

Siri did it, she needs to hear you, and you need to hear her.

 

[Beershaun]

Did you play content after enabling it? Maybe it only changes things once it start the audio?

Can you change the gain in the Audio MIDI control when exclusive mode is enabled? If so, does it persist?

Yes. No change in audio volume after restarting the song and the app. in exclusive mode.

No. When in exclusive mode the Audio MIDI control is locked out at -41db. It persists that way as long as in exclusive mode. When I switch off exclusive mode the Audio MIDI stays at the -41db setting but I can now go in and move the slider all the way up to 0db full output.

 

[Beershaun]

Try setting the e30 to 24-bit.

Not sure what you mean? When I checked the instruction manual I couldn't find anything that mentioned setting a specific bit depth. The Topping E30 automatically switches to the incoming sample rate. So when I get a Tidal FLAC output (Max) It will show me the sample rate (48khz, 96khz etc.) on the display.

 

[Miley_B]

When Tidal is in exclusive mode, the volume slider in the lower bar is usually synchronized with the system device volume.
If the Tidal app volume was attenuated before selecting a device set to exclusive mode, switching to that device will cause its system volume, visible in Audio MIDI Setup, to be attenuated to match the Tidal app volume.
Could this be your issue?

 

[JIW]

Do you have volume normalization on in tidal?

I had a case on Friday where attenuation was 38 dB or so with volume normalisation turned on in exclusive mode with force volume. It was on Atlantic Jaxx Volume 1. Missing You by Ronnie Richards, I think. I turned it off after. No such issues since.

Setup: MacBook Air M1, macOS 15.7.1. Tidal latest version as of 24.10.

 

[Philbo King]

Hey all,
I'm trying to understand if this is a bug or a feature. I have recently switched to a Macbook pro for my work laptop from Windows. The volume in my headphones has dropped from normal listening levels to almost inaudible coming out of my Topping L30 II amp. I have it normally set at low gain with the volume knob at ~11 o-clock driving my AT-M50x headphones. At the new lower level I have to adjust the gain switch to high gain mode and turn the volume know to ~1 oclock to get back to normal listening level.

I have narrowed this down to the Mac Audio MIDI Setup app settings dropping the Primary Stream output level to -41db (sometimes -22db) whenever Tidal Exclusive mode is engaged. The Audio MIDI Setup primary stream output settings should be -0db providing the full output signal to my Topping DAC. And when I turn off Tidal's Exclusive mode and I crank the primary stream outpu setting back up to full output (-0db) the volume to my headphones returns to normal (same as using previous Windows laptop).

So:
1)My advice is, if anyone else is experiencing the same problem with using Tidal on a Mac, turn off Exclusive mode and open the Midi app and crank up the output back to full signal (-0db).

2) Has anyone figured out a fix for this problem? I would prefer to use exclusive mode because the Mac resamples everything to a fixed bit depth and sample rate.

Thanks!

Might it be a traumatic response to the music you selected? (Kidding here!)
I've always had a -41dB reflex whenever I hear Brittany Spears...

 

[Beershaun]

When Tidal is in exclusive mode, the volume slider in the lower bar is usually synchronized with the system device volume.
If the Tidal app volume was attenuated before selecting a device set to exclusive mode, switching to that device will cause its system volume, visible in Audio MIDI Setup, to be attenuated to match the Tidal app volume.
Could this be your issue?

I don't think that is my issue. On my Mac I have the Tidal app volume set to 100% and when Tidal is switched to Exclusive mode the system primary output stream in Audio MIDI Setup gets cut from 0db to -41db instantly reducing the volume. The volume slider on the Tidal app stays at 100%. I can adjust the volume slider in the Tidal app and it works as normal. Just it's attenuated -41db so it's range goes from very quiet to inaudible.

 

[Beershaun]

I had a case on Friday where attenuation was 38 dB or so with volume normalisation turned on in exclusive mode with force volume. It was on Atlantic Jaxx Volume 1. Missing You by Ronnie Richards, I think. I turned it off after. No such issues since.

Setup: MacBook Air M1, macOS 15.7.1. Tidal latest version as of 24.10.

Sounds like you have a similar problem as I do. Are you outputting to a USB DAC? When you have a chance, can you see if you can reproduce my issue?
Steps:
1) Open the Audio MIDI Setup app.
2) Select the USB DAC output you use to listen to Tidal
3) Make sure the Primary Stream volume is set to maximum Value=1.0 db=0.0
4) Open the Tidal app.
5) Play a song on Tidal
6) Make sure your Tidal volume slider is set to Max.
7)Enter the sound output menu (little speaker icon next to the volume control in the Tidal app)
8) Choose the USB DAC (more settings)
9) You should get a pop up with two options: 1) Exclusive mode 2) Force Volume.
10) Toggle on Use Exclusive Mode.

Q1: Does the volume suddenly drop?
Q2: Go back to the Audio MIDI Setup app. What is the Primary Stream volume level for your USB DAC now at?