Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 vs. Buchardt I150

[swizard]

Hi All,

First time posting. I recently started to appreciate how important the room is after moving some furniture around and buying a subwoofer. In the last month or so I’ve been reading about the Buchardt I150 and Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 amplifiers that have room correction built it. There is some discussion on this forum about these, especially the Lyngdorf, but not much direct comparison. I am seriously thinking about purchasing one of these, and I’d like to hear the opinions of anyone who has had experience with these. I have not actually listened to either of them, but these are my thoughts from reading about them.

FYI, I currently have Focal Chorus 816v floor standing speakers powered by an NAD 356BEE amp, and a Rel T7/I subwoofer.

Buchardt Advantages

• More powerful and possibly better amplifier section (150 watts into 8 ohms, 300 watts into 4 ohms, vs 60 watts into 8 ohms, 120 watts into 4 ohms)
• Low Level Enhancement for better performance at low listening volume (like old-time Loudness control but more sophisticated)
• Separate Sub-Out and Pre-Out so I could hook up both my subwoofer and a headphone amp at the same time

Lyngdorf Advantages

• Room Perfect seems to work with the full frequency range, whereas the Buchardt room correction only affects the low frequencies - big advantage for Lyngdorf.
• Microphone included for Room Perfect, vs. needing iPhone for Buchardt (I have an android phone so would need to borrow an iPhone).

Both, unfortunately, are missing a headphone jack.

The Buchardts, I believe, are sold direct, whereas the Lyngdorfs are sold through dealers here in the U.S. Buchardt seems to be a much smaller company

I listen the most with streaming, then CDs, occasionally vinyl, and very seldom old cassettes. My turntable has a built-in pre-amp, so the lack of a phono input on the Buchardt isn’t a big deal, I can use the Analog In).

I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has compared these two amps.

Thanks.

 

[JSmith]

amplifiers that have room correction built it

Might be worth a look too;

SHD Power

Roon Ready streaming amplifier with Dirac Live® room correction, 2 x 120Wrms power amplifier, miniDSP audio toolbox for subwoofer integration, Volumio music player, 450MHz Sharc DSP processor

www.minidsp.com

Those Focals are fairly sensitive and rated for 20W - 130W.


JSmith

 

[swizard]

Thanks, JSmith, I had not looked into this. A lot of things I've read imply that Dirac Live is pretty complicated, whereas the Buchardt and Lyngdorf room correction sound very easy to do. If I'm not mistaken, the SHD Power does not have any analog inputs, is that correct?

You're right, the Focals are fairly sensitive. I have always been intrigued by Magnepans, though, and have thought about possibly one day trying those, which seem to be notoriously difficult to drive well.

 

[JSmith]

If I'm not mistaken, the SHD Power does not have any analog inputs, is that correct?

Yes that is correct. If analogue inputs are needed, you could look at this along with a nice power amp;

SHD

Roon Ready network audio streamer with Dirac Live® room correction, miniDSP audio toolbox for subwoofer integration and multiway speakers, Volumio music player, Audiophile 32-bit converters, 450MHz Sharc DSP processor

www.minidsp.com

JSmith

 

[dougi]

What about the NAD C399 with Bluos/DIRAC module? Stocks coming into Oz soon seem to be discounted a bit, so likely elsewhere too. I have both DIRAC and RoomPerfect on tap. I think DIRAC sounds better, tidying up the image a bit. It certainly measures better with the impulse response correction.

 

[Holmz]

Hi All,

First time posting...
…

Welcome.

Both of those amps are certainly interesting to me.
I just hauled over a use Lyngdorf AVR that also has Room Perfect, so I need to set it up.

It is more clear, but still somewhat obfuscated as to what DIRAC is doing.
If we pretend that Dirac is like the Dirac delta function, then it makes sense that the impulse response can be improved as @dougi mentioned.

I believe that Room Prefect is also mostly in the lower registers, and not full band.

1) If your speakers were known to have a good impulse response, then it may be that nothing is gained from Dirac Live. (Impulse response wise)
2) And if your room were well treated then not too much might be gained from Room Perfect.

#1 might be true, but @2 rarely is.
So I would start by seeing what you can find for your speakers in terms of measurements.

And a better room is probably a better starting place for RoomPerfect, as one does not want to be cutting out the direct sound as a way to control the level from the reverberant echos.

Deciding between Lyngdorf and Buchardt, does not seem like as choosing between A) being burnt to death or B) eaten by a shark.
i.e. where C : none of the above is the correct answer.

So it is not like there is an obvious bad choice here.

 

[dougi]

Welcome.

Both of those amps are certainly interesting to me.
I just hauled over a use Lyngdorf AVR that also has Room Perfect, so I need to set it up.

It is more clear, but still somewhat obfuscated as to what DIRAC is doing.
If we pretend that Dirac is like the Dirac delta function, then it makes sense that the impulse response can be improved as @dougi mentioned.

I believe that Room Prefect is also mostly in the lower registers, and not full band.

1) If your speakers were known to have a good impulse response, then it may be that nothing is gained from Dirac Live. (Impulse response wise)
2) And if your room were well treated then not too much might be gained from Room Perfect.

#1 might be true, but @2 rarely is.
So I would start by seeing what you can find for your speakers in terms of measurements.

And a better room is probably a better starting place for RoomPerfect, as one does not want to be cutting out the direct sound as a way to control the level from the reverberant echos.

Deciding between Lyngdorf and Buchardt, does not seem like as choosing between A) being burnt to death or B) eaten by a shark.
i.e. where C : none of the above is the correct answer.

So it is not like there is an obvious bad choice here.

RP does do a full range correction. I did post a comparison of my system with DIRAC vs RP here. Certain;y either is great and a newer version of RP than mine may be different.

 

[swizard]

I'd been steering away from amps that use Dirac because it sounded like it might be more complicated than I wanted to deal with, but maybe I should take another look. Dougi, thanks for the reference to your comparison, I'll take a look.

 

[Timcognito]

Might be worth a look too;

SHD Power

Roon Ready streaming amplifier with Dirac Live® room correction, 2 x 120Wrms power amplifier, miniDSP audio toolbox for subwoofer integration, Volumio music player, 450MHz Sharc DSP processor

www.minidsp.com

Those Focals are fairly sensitive and rated for 20W - 130W.


JSmith

Echo @JSmith Nice review with measurements here:

SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com - miniDSP SHD Power Integrated Amplifier-DAC

www.soundstagehifi.com

 

[Holmz]

I'd been steering away from amps that use Dirac because it sounded like it might be more complicated than I wanted to deal with, but maybe I should take another look. Dougi, thanks for the reference to your comparison, I'll take a look.

If you have access to a mic and REW, then maybe you could see what the impulse response measures?
That might inform you as to whether there is much that Dirac could do impulse wise.

 

[swizard]

If you have access to a mic and REW, then maybe you could see what the impulse response measures?
That might inform you as to whether there is much that Dirac could do impulse wise.

I'm afraid I don't really understand the impulse response measurements or graphs.

 

[Holmz]

I'm afraid I don't really understand the impulse response measurements or graphs.

Learn More About A Meaningful Loudspeaker Phase Response

This article will discuss how to set a correct time reference to view phase response and assumes readers have experience in loudspeaker measurement.

www.prosoundtraining.com

In post #7 @dougi had a link to his post which showed the initial impulse response was negative… This means that the tweeter is sucking in, where it should be pushing out.
Dirac would make a bigger difference there.

Step function response is also worth looking at.

Measuring Loudspeakers, Part Two Page 3

Fig.11 shows a good step response produced by a time-coherent, three-way loudspeaker, with the outputs of the three drive-units adding in-phase at the microphone position. There are not that many speakers that produce this good a step response. Of the speakers I have measured for Stereophile...

www.stereophile.com

 

[MarkS]

I bought the Lyngdorf a few months ago for my 2.1 system and I am extremely happy with it.

IIRC, the Buchard does not do high-pass filtering of the mains (EDIT: this is wrong, see next post!), which IMO is essential for good subwoofer integration. Whereas the Lyngdorf gives you full independent control over both the high and low pass filters.

 

[NoGoodPoints]

I bought the Lyngdorf a few months ago for my 2.1 system and I am extremely happy with it.

IIRC, the Buchard does not do high-pass filtering of the mains, which IMO is essential for good subwoofer integration. Whereas the Lyngdorf gives you full independent control over both the high and low pass filters.

FYI - I picked up the Buchardt last week. It does high-pass filtering as well as low, which you can use with or without the room correction.

 

[MarkS]

Good to know, I will edit my post!

 

[Mr. Widget]

I bought the Lyngdorf a few months ago for my 2.1 system and I am extremely happy with it.

IIRC, the Buchard does not do high-pass filtering of the mains (EDIT: this is wrong, see next post!), which IMO is essential for good subwoofer integration. Whereas the Lyngdorf gives you full independent control over both the high and low pass filters.

Now that you have been living with the 1120 for a few months how do you like it? Are you using it as a preamp or are you using the amplifier section? The amp is modest, but in a 2.1 configuration with the right speakers I could imagine that it could be all the power you need.

I have the MP40 in my surround system running active speakers and it is great. RoomPerfect is surprisingly effective. I also particularly like the Roon integration and I really enjoy the "voicing" feature... it is easy to use and quite powerful. I am considering the 1120 for a different room.

 

[MarkS]

Now that you have been living with the 1120 for a few months how do you like it? Are you using it as a preamp or are you using the amplifier section?

I absolutely love it! And I am using the amp. My main spearkers are Goldenear Triton Sevens, which are 87.8dB: https://www.soundandvision.com/content/review-goldenear-triton-seven-tower-speaker-page-3 Room is a 21'x15' living room, 8' opening on a long wall to an adjoining dining room. I am currently crossing to a single SVS 3000 Micro sub at 60 Hz (LR4 on both sides), but before that I was running 2.0. I usually listen at moderate volume (full orchestra mid hall), but once in a while crank some classic rock. No problems that I've heard, with or without the sub.

I completely agree on RoomPerfect and voicings. I mostly use one I created that approximates a smooth 6dB drop from 20Hz to 20kHz, sort of a flatter Harman curve.

Note that you cannot use it as a preamp and simultaneously as a sub crossover, as it has only one analog out.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Thanks for the feedback. Very cool... bummer about the pre-amp and sub combo, but for most situations that is probably not a show stopper. Sounds like it is working well for you. My planned speakers would be ~93dB.

I am spoiled with the MP40's capabilities. I currently have two subs and after modeling the room, I want to add a third to make it even better. I can mange up to four, but in my room three appears to be the magic number.

 

[swizard]

I absolutely love it! And I am using the amp. My main spearkers are Goldenear Triton Sevens, which are 87.8dB: https://www.soundandvision.com/content/review-goldenear-triton-seven-tower-speaker-page-3 Room is a 21'x15' living room, 8' opening on a long wall to an adjoining dining room. I am currently crossing to a single SVS 3000 Micro sub at 60 Hz (LR4 on both sides), but before that I was running 2.0. I usually listen at moderate volume (full orchestra mid hall), but once in a while crank some classic rock. No problems that I've heard, with or without the sub.

I completely agree on RoomPerfect and voicings. I mostly use one I created that approximates a smooth 6dB drop from 20Hz to 20kHz, sort of a flatter Harman curve.

Note that you cannot use it as a preamp and simultaneously as a sub crossover, as it has only one analog out.

Glad to hear you love it. Yeah, I think you have to go up to their higher end amp in order to use as preamp and sub crossover at the same time.