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Luxman L-509X

itsikhefez

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The Luxman (and other similar Japanese amps) may not be the best choice for high efficiency speakers as their gain is fairly high (only 180mV needed for full output power on the line stage).

How sensitive are your speakers? I currently have connected some older Klipsch Quartet's which are 97dB/1W/1m, so I can test this out.
 

Helicopter

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I like the exposed knobs that go through the faceplate. The print over the meters is a little busy. Accuphase colors are better.

Accuphase E-280 would suit my tastes better. I am not a big fan of the knob cover thing on the Accuphase models above the 280.
 

restorer-john

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The Luxman (and other similar Japanese amps) may not be the best choice for high efficiency speakers as their gain is fairly high (only 180mV needed for full output power on the line stage).

How sensitive are your speakers? I currently have connected some older Klipsch Quartet's which are 97dB/1W/1m, so I can test this out.

150mV line input sensitivity for full rated power/voltage was the standard for decades on preamplifiers and integrated amplifiers. That's what you have the volume control for- attentuating.

The sensitivity of the attached speakers is irrelevant.

The only downside of a more sensitive front end is the volume control spends more time at the low end, than at the high end, and often with coarser control.
 

itsikhefez

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Thanks for clarifying that. That is why I like the Luxman LECUA with the 88 1dB steps resistor ladder. It ensures good tracking at any level and volume adjustment is very smooth.

How does large amounts of attenuation impact the measurements, such as SNR ?
Isn't most of the signal "thrown away" even before entering the preamp?
 

Ingenieur

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Acquired last week:
100% volume thru phono, gain ~ 9700
Inherent cartridge noise is 6 mV at speakers (thermal noise).
Measured at speakers.
It's quiet ;)
 

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Bob from Florida

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I own a L507uxii and am quite satisfied with its performance. The main differences between this and the 509 are as follows. Three pairs of output devices instead of two pairs, 80,000 uf versus 40,000 uf in power supply, higher quality input RCA jacks for line 1, a fancy top cover, and white backlighting for the meters instead of blue. Damping factor is higher at 370 versus 260 but power output is only 10 watts higher which tells me the power supply is the limiting factor. Probably better bass response with double capacitance. You have to decide if these differences are worth $3K difference in price.
 

DSJR

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Way out of my league but I have to say I LOVE this amplifier - in every way. It's damned heavy to set up for a dem ( :D) but you feel as if this will last many decades, just as it's 1970's ancestors I cut my teeth on can. It's a treat for the ears too, with absolutely no grain or hardness/harshness. Absolutely delightful as it feeds all the senses.
 

Bob from Florida

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A good performing integrated amplifier. I'm not sold on the electronic micro driven volume. Overly complicated and highly likely to be the failure point down the track:
View attachment 151025

The main volume control is a motorized Alps blue twin gang, but it's likely that will be read by A/D lines by the micro and translated to control of the electronic volume board above. That way, they can control what looks like all 4 (left hot/cold, right hot/cold).

The power stage looks also a bit unconventional with likely some distortion adjustment pots trimmed in the factory: View attachment 151027

Notice the four trimpots. Usually you'll have 2, bias and offset. We have two groups of two on the board edges. Now they could be coarse and fine for bias and offset, but judging on where they are, I think we've got some direct distortion cancelling topology with high f and low f THD trim perhaps.

Also, a ton of headers for off board connections for a single channel amp module. Normally you'd need +/- main rails, maybe +/- front end rails (which this appears to have), input signal +/-, maybe some mute signal for the relay, some temp, overcurrent signals and a hot speaker out.

And the speaker relays. Why aren't they using MOSFET switches like Accuphase (and @pma)?

Other than a nice thick brushed aluminium case, I don't see nearly US$10k in this thing. I've got 1980s integrateds built way better than this Lux.
Restorer-John - you have stated your dislike for the Luxman volume control previously and now you are passing judgments on the output stage topology. Do you have proof that the volume control is a high failure design?
 

Ingenieur

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Listening to Hutcherson/Oblique Tone Poet lp.
The xylophone sounds amazing. Not harsh, or fatiguing , but tonal.

I have a Mac that it replaced.
MA6300, still meets spec.

Both are built to perform and last.
 

restorer-john

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Restorer-John - you have stated your dislike for the Luxman volume control previously and now you are passing judgments on the output stage topology. Do you have proof that the volume control is a high failure design?

Judgments? Nah. Observations based on my experience. It is, after all, a US$10k amplifier and deserves some scrutiny. It's an adequate, nicely designed Accuphase power stage. But telling us how good relays are, when they are the source of most distortion, degradation and failure in high powered amplifiers is a joke. Use Mosfets like Accuphase- they are inexpensive and way better. But sure, I love Accuphase and have a few pieces myself (vintage ones).

You want me to get in my time machine De-Lorean to give you "proof" something will fail? I stated the volume control is a likely point of failure "down the track". Electronic volume controls of any type or topology, along with electronic (soft) input switching/selection are susceptible to failure due to spikes, transients and simple component failure. I've dealt with them for decades. Consider that board is a solution looking for a problem- something the Japanese are very good at. They have always loved to create incredibly complicated ways of doing things, just because they can. Rube Goldbergesque.

I mean, look at the PCB. It's just a precision 4 gang volume control (balanced, 2 channels). A motorized four gang, tight tolerance Alps blue could have done the same thing and is also immune to voltage limitations that electronic volume controls are (ie they are easy to overload) And, we know conventional pots last for many decades without trouble. I have plenty that are over 30 years old working perfectly. And, they won't cost you an absolute fortune to replace like an entire PCB will.

Sure, a really nice amplifier and very nicely constructed in order to press all the right audiophile buttons.
 

Ingenieur

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Accuphase wanted $12k for a similar amp (E380). The phono board alone was $2.4.
Plus the rose gold is too much. Pimptastic.

I've seen measurements.
The Luxman is a better product, and was 25% less. I contemplated the Accuphase but decided against it, profiteering.

All things fail. Predicting when is the like picking a lottery number. Complexity does not determine that: engineering & build quality does. I've seen an email from Luxman. The amp runs class A up to ~ 6 W then transitions to A/B. It runs hot, measured the air flow, 120 deg. Idle power is 150 W, Hence so many dang fangled wires on the output section and rails.

My MA6300 ~ the same power
Luxman xfmr 50% larger
Caps, 150%, 66 vs 160 uF

If it breaks, I'll get it fixed, I would not have bought it with my last $. lol

Whole house surge protection, amp is plugged into a local protector. < 2 Ohm ground bed, UG utilities. Homeowners insurance with riders.
You take measures, but you better be prepared for losses. Life is too short to worry and obsess over hifi gear and things I have little control over.

Moved on to Andrew Hill/Black Fire
Sweet
 

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Bob from Florida

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Judgments? Nah. Observations based on my experience. It is, after all, a US$10k amplifier and deserves some scrutiny. It's an adequate, nicely designed Accuphase power stage. But telling us how good relays are, when they are the source of most distortion, degradation and failure in high powered amplifiers is a joke. Use Mosfets like Accuphase- they are inexpensive and way better. But sure, I love Accuphase and have a few pieces myself (vintage ones).

You want me to get in my time machine De-Lorean to give you "proof" something will fail? I stated the volume control is a likely point of failure "down the track". Electronic volume controls of any type or topology, along with electronic (soft) input switching/selection are susceptible to failure due to spikes, transients and simple component failure. I've dealt with them for decades. Consider that board is a solution looking for a problem- something the Japanese are very good at. They have always loved to create incredibly complicated ways of doing things, just because they can. Rube Goldbergesque.

I mean, look at the PCB. It's just a precision 4 gang volume control (balanced, 2 channels). A motorized four gang, tight tolerance Alps blue could have done the same thing and is also immune to voltage limitations that electronic volume controls are (ie they are easy to overload) And, we know conventional pots last for many decades without trouble. I have plenty that are over 30 years old working perfectly. And, they won't cost you an absolute fortune to replace like an entire PCB will.

Sure, a really nice amplifier and very nicely constructed in order to press all the right audiophile buttons.
Would it be fair to summarize your view is that the Luxman solution will likely fail before a potentiometer fails? Based on experience in general without real data - as in known failures. Please don't take this the wrong way, but that seems rather subjective. Given how "objective" this site can be that is actually hilarious.
 

restorer-john

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$2.4k, $2,400
DAC $2k

Whoa. That's just insane money for this, especially as all the settings are dip switches on the PCB- you have to pull it out to just turn on the subsonic filter.
1632705904078.png
 

Ingenieur

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Whoa. That's just insane money for this, especially as all the settings are dip switches on the PCB- you have to pull it out to just turn on the subsonic filter.
View attachment 155792
Hence the Luxman. ;)
With an excellent built in stage.
I can get a Topping D10s USB DAC $100 if I want vs $2k for the Accuphase card.
 

Ingenieur

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Topping D10s on the way.
The ASR test/review is compelling.

Revised:
Cancelled D10s
Ordered D10 balanced
2 x 1/4 TRS to male XRS WBC/Mogami

Dang ASR measurements!
 
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