Luxman L-509X

[Bob from Florida]

Dyanudio Heritage Special

Looks real nice

 

[watchnerd]

@Bob from Florida just FYI your reply was blank

 

[Bob from Florida]

@Bob from Florida just FYI your reply was blank

I tried to send a thumbs up and that does not work by itself.

 

[watchnerd]

I tried to send a thumbs up and that does not work by itself.

Thanks!

 

[Ingenieur]

That one is 30 watts class A but no rating of how much it makes class AB. Beautiful amp!

Does it operate Class AB?

mine is A up to 6 W, AB to 120
idle 150 W
380 W full output
Music 230, close to the 2 x 120 less the Class A contribution of ~10 W


590A
Idle 260 W
Full output 330
That would imply max music output 70 W
?

Power consumption
330W 260W (under no signal), 0.5W (at standby)

 

[watchnerd]

Does it operate Class AB?

mine is A up to 6 W, AB to 120
idle 150 W
380 W full output
Music 230, close to the 2 x 120 less the Class A contribution of ~10 W


590A
Idle 260 W
Full output 330
That would imply max music output 70 W
?

Power consumption
330W 260W (under no signal), 0.5W (at standby)

See post #58

 

[Ingenieur]

See post #58

I found 3 tests
The one said it transitioned into Class B (not AB)
Instantaneous power at clipping 90 W, 1%, 8 Ohm

 

[watchnerd]

I found 3 tests
The one said it transitioned into Class B (not AB)
Instantaneous power at clipping 90 W, 1%, 8 Ohm

Yes, that's correct.

Most class AB amps transition to B at max output.

 

[Ingenieur]

Yes, that's correct.

Most class AB amps transition to B at max output.

590 goes A to B
509 A to AB

The internals are almost identical, they just operate in a different class.
Even the power output modules.
590 A<30 W, B > 30
509 A < 6(8?) AB> 6 or 8

 

[watchnerd]

590 goes A to B
509 A to AB

The internals are almost identical, they just operate in a different class.
Even the power output modules.
590 A<30 W, B > 30
509 A < 6(8?) AB> 6 or 8

Yes, the 590 is more A-biased.

And different color meters and the 509 has a fancier top.

Price difference is only $500, which is probably the cost of the markup on the top.

The class is fairly irrelevant (other than heat), IMHO, as amp biasing shouldn't be very audible. I've heard them both side by side before.

Max power output between them is about 1-2 dB difference.

I picked the 590AXII over the 509X because the amber meters match my Revox and Studer decks better than the white meters.

 

[Tdwolf]

Yes, the 590 is more A-biased.

And different color meters and the 509 has a fancier top.

Price difference is only $500, which is probably the cost of the markup on the top.

The class is fairly irrelevant (other than heat), IMHO, as amp biasing shouldn't be very audible. I've heard them both side by side before.

Max power output between them is about 1-2 dB difference.

I picked the 590AXII over the 509X because the amber meters match my Revox and Studer decks better than the white meters.

I am looking at the same amp. I see your speakers have a similar sensitivity rating of 85db. I currently have the KEF Reference 1's. I would love to hear your thoughts on your combo and if you feel you need the extra power of the 509x. I briefly listened to the 590axii with the Ref 1's but I need to go back and get a longer demo. I see you live in the Seattle area. I do as well. Did you purchase from Hawthorne Stereo?

 

[watchnerd]

I am looking at the same amp. I see your speakers have a similar sensitivity rating of 85db. I currently have the KEF Reference 1's. I would love to hear your thoughts on your combo and if you feel you need the extra power of the 509x. I briefly listened to the 590axii with the Ref 1's but I need to go back and get a longer demo. I see you live in the Seattle area. I do as well. Did you purchase from Hawthorne Stereo?

I purchased my speakers from Hawthorne Stereo and heard both of the amps there.

I didn't end up purchasing the amp there because I got a better offer on my amp trade-in elsewhere.

 

[Tdwolf]

I purchased my speakers from Hawthorne Stereo and heard both of the amps there.

I didn't end up purchasing the amp there because I got a better offer on my amp trade-in elsewhere.

Interesting. Where did you buy the Luxman. I will also be trading in another integrated so finding a place that gives good trade in value would be great.

 

[watchnerd]

Interesting. Where did you buy the Luxman. I will also be trading in another integrated so finding a place that gives good trade in value would be great.

Music Direct

 

[watchnerd]

I noticed that both the L-509X and L-590AXII have 800 ohm output impedance on the headphone jack.

This seems ridiculously high, way beyond the usually guidelines of 1/10th of the output impedance of the headphones you plan to drive.

Stereophile says this:

"The headphone output impedance was very high, at 800 ohms at all audio frequencies. As the maximum gain at this output was the same as at the speaker terminals, I suspect that the headphone output is implemented by placing a resistor in series with the power-amplifier stage."

Luxman L-509X integrated amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements I measured the Luxman L-509X using my Audio Precision SYS2722 system (see the January 2008 "As We See It"). Before I test an amplifier, I precondition it with both channels driving a 1kHz tone at one-third power into 8 ohms for an hour. At the end of that time, the...

www.stereophile.com

What headphones can these amps actually drive?

Are even high impedance 300 ohm Senns possible to drive well?

 

[Ingenieur]

I noticed that both the L-509X and L-590AXII have 800 ohm output impedance on the headphone jack.

This seems ridiculously high, way beyond the usually guidelines of 1/10th of the output impedance of the headphones you plan to drive.

Stereophile says this:

"The headphone output impedance was very high, at 800 ohms at all audio frequencies. As the maximum gain at this output was the same as at the speaker terminals, I suspect that the headphone output is implemented by placing a resistor in series with the power-amplifier stage."

Luxman L-509X integrated amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements I measured the Luxman L-509X using my Audio Precision SYS2722 system (see the January 2008 "As We See It"). Before I test an amplifier, I precondition it with both channels driving a 1kHz tone at one-third power into 8 ohms for an hour. At the end of that time, the...

www.stereophile.com

What headphones can these amps actually drive?

Are even high impedance 300 ohm Senns possible to drive well?

He was correct. Block diagram from my manual. They don't show a R but it is in // with the speakers.

I would think the R would be in // (+ to ground or frame -) ?
He said he saw the same V gain.
Would not a series R have V drop?

What is a typical headphone input Z?

Measured with 600 Ohm

 

[watchnerd]

What is a typical headphone input Z?

That would be a good data mining exercise for Amir's test results.

The ones I have, personally, range from 32 - 300 ohms

 

[Bob from Florida]

I have used the headphone output on my Luxman 507 to drive my Grado SR 80's and Muze Classic 99 headphones to as loud as you could want. Both are 32 ohms. This should not work if the 800 ohms is correct. A 120 watt amps puts out 31 volts RMS. Eight hundred ohms would deliver 40 milliwatts at max output to a 32 ohm load. If a typo was made and it is 80 ohms then we have 8.57 volts RMS available to drive a 32 ohm load to almost 2.3 watts. This is more likely and makes much more sense that 800.
Next time I have time to waste I will measure the no load and loaded output then calculate the output impedance on mine.

 

[Ingenieur]

That would be a good data mining exercise for Amir's test results.

The ones I have, personally, range from 32 - 300 ohms

After thinking about it I think he just put a meter on it and measured in //.

To measure actually output Z you need to drive the amp over known loads and measure V and I, that will give you an equivalent R, and back calculate output Z.
Maybe do the same with a short.

The actual is the amp output Z (mine is ~0.03 Ohm) in // with the 800 Ohm.
Which is ~0.03 Ohm, same as for the speakers.

If in series and headphones are 50 Ohm at full out 31 V, I = 36 mA, so P = 0.26 uW
Will drive a headphone?

 

[watchnerd]

I have used the headphone output on my Luxman 507 to drive my Grado SR 80's and Muze Classic 99 headphones to as loud as you could want. Both are 32 ohms. This should not work if the 800 ohms is correct. A 120 watt amps puts out 31 volts RMS. Eight hundred ohms would deliver 40 milliwatts at max output to a 32 ohm load. If a typo was made and it is 80 ohms then we have 8.57 volts RMS available to drive a 32 ohm load to almost 2.3 watts. This is more likely and makes much more sense that 800.
Next time I have time to waste I will measure the no load and loaded output then calculate the output impedance on mine.

When I read the Stereophile commentary and looked at the block diagram, my thought was:

"Why would Luxman make the resistance so much higher than they need to?"

Maybe it is a typo.