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LSR 305 and 308 discontinued.............read below

12B4A

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There is high praise for the old one. And I can attest to the new one being excellent. So as a minimum, they did not go backward. :)

If there is high interest I guess I could buy a pair of the old ones to compare. Should I? I don't have a personal need for another pair.

I just happen to have a few LSR305s unused since the upgrade to 705Ps. I don't have a high fiscal interest in recovering the cost of the speakers. ;)
 

SPFC

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There is high praise for the old one. And I can attest to the new one being excellent. So as a minimum, they did not go backward. :)

If there is high interest I guess I could buy a pair of the old ones to compare. Should I? I don't have a personal need for another pair.
Seems like you may have a free set of MK1s to test. I think another interesting test would be to compare the MK2s to the 705Ps - even tough they cost a bit more money - they are both powered, have the new waveguide and similar form factor. Based on your praise of the LSR305 MK2, I would be curious to see how close (or not) the two are.
 

i108

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I don't think anyone is ignoring you. The mkII has only just been made available. So several of us here have the old version. Only one has the new version to my knowledge. There just isn't anyone who can say much in way of comparison at this point in time.

Right on.

Yeah, I know they don't list specs for transient response but some of you seem knowledgeable on those metrics and ways of testing, and I figure might know how big a deal it may be. Also how big a deal balancing the db of the speakers is.

I am transferring stuff off this PC to hopefully get a replacement and still need to hook my sub up!

I mean, for $180 I probably won't notice $120 worth of improvement on the mkii but I still consider it.

My co-worker is debating buying them. I do like the piano gloss and looks, but new ones look fine too. I tried to craigslist them but no one replied at 250 or at 200 thus far, was worth a shot. I can try 180 which is my cost on the sale but hey the isolation feet have been expertly attached and I include cables and all :p

Also, the mkii will eventually go on a holiday or one of the big sales, so there is that, if I wait a bit to sell these to a co-worker (if they buy it) I can then get the new versions cheaper.

But it would be nice to see what "improved" transients mean, and the linearity and any other transducer difference.

Hiss hasn't been an issue, I set my monitors to 4, and use the interface knob (scarlett 2i2 2nd gen) but what do you all think? I keep windows volume full on the interface.
 

stunta

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Seems like you may have a free set of MK1s to test. I think another interesting test would be to compare the MK2s to the 705Ps - even tough they cost a bit more money - they are both powered, have the new waveguide and similar form factor. Based on your praise of the LSR305 MK2, I would be curious to see how close (or not) the two are.

+1. I had a quick listen to the MK2 that arrived just today. They replaced the ATC SCM19 speakers driven by Hypex NC400 monoblocks that together cost me around $4K. I am about to cry.
 

amirm

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+1. I had a quick listen to the MK2 that arrived just today. They replaced the ATC SCM19 speakers driven by Hypex NC400 monoblocks that together cost me around $4K. I am about to cry.
Cry as in they are good. Or they are not?
 

i108

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I will bug JBL again for some numbers. I asked on Massdrop thread if they are going to make the balanced all piano gloss pair of the mkii/305p but might have to write support and not just in the discussion thread.

How far off are monitors usually? It clicks between gain settings so seems like a big deal to be close. I just wonder how far off normal 305s are. One would think balancing and selling balanced pairs would be a standard practice.
 

stunta

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Cry as in they are good. Or they are not?

They are good. It’s too early and I don’t want to leap to any conclusions, but one thing is strikingly obvious - before spending thousands of dollars on a system, one has to think really hard and more importantly first, listen to what these $300 speakers can do. I wish I had done that before getting the Hypex ncores. I got sucked in by the hype. The ncores are very good, probably the best amps I have heard, but they have probably become redundant for me. Moral of the story is, if you want to go with the hype, go cheap :)

Now I am really really curious about the 705p.
 

RayDunzl

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My LSR 308 (old version) are good until pushed, then harmonic distortion come up, and they may begin to compress...

The measurement is at 10 feet, with both speakers playing, so not really "nearfield" as they are intended.

Looks like compression begins to set in on the woofer under 100dB. I didn't push them any farther.

upload_2018-2-2_15-35-33.png


Distortion measurement... At low levels, room noise dominates the measurement, at high levels the speakers show high levels of harmonics. The sweet spot of this measurement was around 80dB.

80dB

upload_2018-2-2_15-43-12.png


About 98dB

upload_2018-2-2_15-44-2.png


For comparison, Martin Logan reQuest, 95dB, same measurement position:

upload_2018-2-2_15-46-48.png
 
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rebbiputzmaker

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+1. I had a quick listen to the MK2 that arrived just today. They replaced the ATC SCM19 speakers driven by Hypex NC400 monoblocks that together cost me around $4K. I am about to cry.
NC400s are very nice amps. I would jump off the bridge just yet. The JBLs are nice overall and killer for the price, but there are better. IMO, for example a pair of LS50s with your NC400s would be much better than the JBLs. The little JBLs are not the last word in information retrieval. It is surprising the quality you can get for so little, but they are not unbeatable.
 

stunta

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NC400s are very nice amps. I would jump off the bridge just yet. The JBLs are nice overall and killer for the price, but there are better. IMO, for example a pair of LS50s with your NC400s would be much better than the JBLs. The little JBLs are not the last word in information retrieval. It is surprising the quality you can get for so little, but they are not unbeatable.

That sounds like a lot of agreement stated in the form of disagreements. But yeah, I agree :) See https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...iscontinued-read-below.2272/page-6#post-63232

I didn't say the 305s are better than my current config. The price to performance ratio makes my head spin.
 

12B4A

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The 305s I have had replaced Magnepan 1.7i after doing direct comparisons in my room. Qualitatively, I'd say the 305s got 90-95% of the way there compared to the maggies. When considering that within the context of their cost and size, it wasn't a hard decision to be the first person to return a pair of 1.7s for that dealer. The 705Ps (or at least the 5 samples I have) are just the next level of build quality and performance refinement. I'm sorry Mr. Savage's 705s were assembled during a siesta and then kicked around a little on their trip over the pond.
 

stunta

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Qualitatively, I'd say the 305s got 90-95% of the way there compared to the maggies.

Since you've opened the door to qualitative comparison as a percentage, I must ask - where do you think the 305s stand compared to the 705s?
 

12B4A

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80-85% if I consider just audio quality. I'd argue that it is a solid trip down the diminishing returns curve but there are meaningful returns to be had. Other factors like higher power capability, better build materials, more advanced DSP, and a slightly more compact cabinet do add value though.

Edit: The MKIIs would be interesting if they have made a modest incremental improvement to the sound quality.
 

Thomas savage

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The 305s I have had replaced Magnepan 1.7i after doing direct comparisons in my room. Qualitatively, I'd say the 305s got 90-95% of the way there compared to the maggies. When considering that within the context of their cost and size, it wasn't a hard decision to be the first person to return a pair of 1.7s for that dealer. The 705Ps (or at least the 5 samples I have) are just the next level of build quality and performance refinement. I'm sorry Mr. Savage's 705s were assembled during a siesta and then kicked around a little on their trip over the pond.
They do ok, it’s not unusual for me to hear fault where others seem content. If your ok with the mid range colouration the little jbl’s Might be ok.

I’d go for the cheaper mk2 305’s, the same bad hombres are making them, they don’t take anymore care over the vastly more expensive 705p’s.

The forum has a romance with JBL probably because it fits in a ideal or perceived noble ideal of price vs performance along with its pro heritage.. I’d suggest that’s a ingrained bias we have, in truth it’s by the numbers cheap manufacturing from a company with a fundamental identity crisis.. the disconnect between design and manufacture integrity being as wide as it is tragic.
 
OP
Blumlein 88

Blumlein 88

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They do ok, it’s not unusual for me to hear fault where others seem content. If your ok with the mid range colouration the little jbl’s Might be ok.

I’d go for the cheaper mk2 305’s, the same bad hombres are making them, they don’t take anymore care over the vastly more expensive 705p’s.

The forum has a romance with JBL probably because it fits in a ideal or perceived noble ideal of price vs performance along with its pro heritage.. I’d suggest that’s a ingrained bias we have, in truth it’s by the numbers cheap manufacturing from a company with a fundamental identity crisis.. the disconnect between design and manufacture integrity being as wide as it is tragic.

I had read various blogs by Sean Olive and about Toole's work at Harman. It looked very interesting. Yet none of my friends etc had purchased JBLs or Revels so I never heard any. So I wasn't outright sold on them, but I liked the idea of trying something beyond the build it and listen approach to speaker design. I heard over the years various excellent speakers. Some were kind of expensive, some were highly expensive, but disappointingly even more were expensive to highly expensive and I couldn't for the life of me understand how people could even stand them. I began using some room correction which helped many speakers.

So few years ago I began recording music and needed some small monitors for mixing. Mixing on my Soundlab panels didn't always work for other people's gear. Perusing the pro audio forums when you asked for a below $1k pair of monitors worth using about 90 people would reply get the 305 or 308s from JBL nothing else is competitive in that range. 5 would say they preferred something else. And maybe 5 would say they were no good listen to X instead. Well I listened to X instead. I don't know how many years of listening to a warped yardstick it took to decide X was better. So for the price I took the risk. The 305s were abnormally good for the money and absolutely good (not fantastic, world beating, SOTA) without regard to cost. Measurements of the 305 and other monitors in that range bear out some of why. M-Audio BX40's and BX8's when listened to sounded like no competition, and measurements showed why.

Later when putting together a multi-channel setup I decided to try some Revel F12s. Results of the Harman design process and 2nd hand not terribly expensive. Wow, they are a better sounding speaker than the LSR series, though equally surprising for the money. So that was starting to convince me Harman's process is onto something useful.

So prior to all the that I considered JBL a manufacturer of sturdy pro gear that sounded loud and crude like many pro speakers do. Maybe somewhere I was biased to believe. One could certainly make the case for that. I had heard pro ADC/DAC gear that seemed to perform much better than consumer DACs. Was always a puzzle to me those people used speakers that were just the reverse.

I was surprised the 705Ps had the issues they do. Puts me off getting some. Maybe some of the similarly priced Revel's would have worked out better for you. Just my impression is those speakers you have are not much more than 305s with the DSP gizmo tacked on. That doesn't sound like a good proposition nor do I know if it is accurate.
 

Thomas savage

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I had read various blogs by Sean Olive and about Toole's work at Harman. It looked very interesting. Yet none of my friends etc had purchased JBLs or Revels so I never heard any. So I wasn't outright sold on them, but I liked the idea of trying something beyond the build it and listen approach to speaker design. I heard over the years various excellent speakers. Some were kind of expensive, some were highly expensive, but disappointingly even more were expensive to highly expensive and I couldn't for the life of me understand how people could even stand them. I began using some room correction which helped many speakers.

So few years ago I began recording music and needed some small monitors for mixing. Mixing on my Soundlab panels didn't always work for other people's gear. Perusing the pro audio forums when you asked for a below $1k pair of monitors worth using about 90 people would reply get the 305 or 308s from JBL nothing else is competitive in that range. 5 would say they preferred something else. And maybe 5 would say they were no good listen to X instead. Well I listened to X instead. I don't know how many years of listening to a warped yardstick it took to decide X was better. So for the price I took the risk. The 305s were abnormally good for the money and absolutely good (not fantastic, world beating, SOTA) without regard to cost. Measurements of the 305 and other monitors in that range bear out some of why. M-Audio BX40's and BX8's when listened to sounded like no competition, and measurements showed why.

Later when putting together a multi-channel setup I decided to try some Revel F12s. Results of the Harman design process and 2nd hand not terribly expensive. Wow, they are a better sounding speaker than the LSR series, though equally surprising for the money. So that was starting to convince me Harman's process is onto something useful.

So prior to all the that I considered JBL a manufacturer of sturdy pro gear that sounded loud and crude like many pro speakers do. Maybe somewhere I was biased to believe. One could certainly make the case for that. I had heard pro ADC/DAC gear that seemed to perform much better than consumer DACs. Was always a puzzle to me those people used speakers that were just the reverse.

I was surprised the 705Ps had the issues they do. Puts me off getting some. Maybe some of the similarly priced Revel's would have worked out better for you. Just my impression is those speakers you have are not much more than 305s with the DSP gizmo tacked on. That doesn't sound like a good proposition nor do I know if it is accurate.
The intresting thing to me is the physical engineering in the wave guide, is it obsolete given the advances in dsp?

Can we not control directivity / off axis performance without the lump of well formed plastic ?
 

Wombat

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The intresting thing to me is the physical engineering in the wave guide, is it obsolete given the advances in dsp?

Can we not control directivity / off axis performance without the lump of well formed plastic ?


In the absence of new driver technology possibly not.

Loudspeaker horns, traditionally, are generally all about directivity, efficiency or both at higher SPLs and long throw intelligibility .Recent designs show improvement in distortion, phase performance and resonances at domestic sound pressures - short throw. I like them, especially for transient response. Others don't. Maybe this is changing with current domestic offerings.
 
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