Low Volume Listening - Extreme Nearfield <$1,700?

[AaronDC]

Hi. I'm using KEF LSX (Gen 1) as my desktop setup and I stream Spotify all day extreme nearfield (24 in). I'm happy with the functionality, but I listen at 55-60db and I find them a bit boring. I'm looking at options and I can spend up to $1,700 on improvements. Unfortunately, the Spotify "Loudness" EQ profile doesn't seem to do anything and KEF has not responded to my inquiries about it and I have a feeling I'm stuck there anyway. So, I guess I have two options, get a new source with a loudness EQ and go in through the Aux input, which I think will be kind of an irritation from a functional standpoint, or get new speakers.

So, what speakers do nearfield people like for low volume listening?

Thanks!

 

[anotherhobby]

I have a miniDSP Flex with Dirac Live that I use as part of my nearfiled listening. Dirac makes it easy to adjust the bass/treble tilt to your preference. The miniDSP has 4 DSP config presets that you can save EQ/Dirac/Crossover settings into and then switch on the fly. I use mine as listed below. Maybe something like that could help.

1. my standard ideal calibration for seated position (I have a standing desk)
2. disable subs to reduce amount of bass transmission (to get even quieter for late night etc)
3. adjusted bass/treble tilt for more full sound at low volume listening
4. my standard ideal calibration for standing position

 

[fpitas]

From an engineering standpoint, a coaxial-based speaker is your best bet.

 

[jae]

I don't know what 'boring' means, but a speaker's response would probably have to be quite bad to give you any positive effect to overcome loudness compensation, and it would come with many downsides over upsides. If the tonal balance sounds much better to you when played a few dB louder that's probably a good indication to investigate some more controlled method to compensate for it. You say you're working at a desktop, is your source not a PC? You can easily achieve loudness compensation effects with simple low and high shelf filters according to how quiet you're listening with no need to invest on additional hardware if so. As another has stated minidsp is always an option, if you use headphones at times the RME ADI-2 interface could be a good albeit more expensive option too, it has both a loudness compensation feature and PEQ among a whole other host of features. One thing to also consider is that, perhaps you're simple growing accustomed or bored of your music selection and attributing it to the hardware- or if this feeling happened unexpectedly, it's always prudent to get your hearing checked.

 

[dshreter]

What source are you using, PC? Implement EQ from there if you can. I don’t think changing speakers will help. The other thing I would do is add a subwoofer.

 

[AaronDC]

-- The KEF LSX have Spotify Connect, so that's the source I've been using. I tried to go out from my headphone jack on my MacBook to the AUX input but there's a loud hum.
-- By "boring" I mean I need loudness or some other compensation like horns. I suspect that my La Scalas don't have a very good response, but I like them at low volumes, so I guess I'm willing to make that tradeoff.
-- I added my REL T/Zero and had trouble integrating it. It seemed to cause more issues than it resolved.
-- I don't use headphones because I want to hear the room and I don't like the soundstage inside my head.
-- I also tried going in via OPT from my Sonos Connect and selected "Loudness" in that source's EQ and ... nothing. Okay so this is getting weird.
-- I'm a 55 year old male with a dip in my right ear at 8,000Hz from a firecracker incident, so yeah. Not the best. But I can hear loudness on my main system no problem.
-- Hmm. I like the Dirac idea. I can experiment with my NAD C268 streaming preamp to see if that helps.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Martinvb]

What worked for me in a comparable setup (vintage Mission 700 series, distance ±80cm) is to connect my Mac with SoundSource (=simple sound processing software from Rogue Amoeba) to my small digital amp (NAD D3020) via USB. The software can be used to PEQ the output signal and is able to make these oldies sing. Alternatively, I generate the audio stream using a RaspDAC Mini (Audiophonics) with Volumio > USB > NAD. The latest version of this open source software has CamillaDSP and lets you apply convolution filters to improve sound, idealy based on measuring the frequency response at your listening positioning. Most simple solution could be a Pi + Volumio as streamer > transparant USB DAC > your prefered amp.

 

[gmoney]

I have a miniDSP Flex with Dirac Live that I use as part of my nearfiled listening. Dirac makes it easy to adjust the bass/treble tilt to your preference. The miniDSP has 4 DSP config presets that you can save EQ/Dirac/Crossover settings into and then switch on the fly. I use mine as listed below. Maybe something like that could help.

1. my standard ideal calibration for seated position (I have a standing desk)
2. disable subs to reduce amount of bass transmission (to get even quieter for late night etc)
3. adjusted bass/treble tilt for more full sound at low volume listening
4. my standard ideal calibration for standing position

Is the Dirac Live license worth it to you?

 

[UltraNearFieldJock]

I think, I can understand what you mean by boring: No good bass, no good virtual stage? You can try the UNF-way - see link below. It works wonderfully for me, even when listening very softly, absolutely not boring. I like good bass and I think it's the best way to get the good quiet bass. But you need a little DIY... I mean, with a MiniDSP Flex it won't be as complicated as with me.

 

[anotherhobby]

Is the Dirac Live license worth it to you?

Absolutely. The difference it makes in sound quality in my office is huge for only $200. I can get kind of close with EQ on my own, but it's not as good and nowhere near as easy and fast. I love it on the miniDSP as opposed to on the computer because I swap computers at my desk frequenly and use other sources. If I was one computer only and didn't need the other functionality of a miniDSP Flex, I'd get the desktop version.

 

[teashea]

Hi. I'm using KEF LSX (Gen 1) as my desktop setup and I stream Spotify all day extreme nearfield (24 in). I'm happy with the functionality, but I listen at 55-60db and I find them a bit boring. I'm looking at options and I can spend up to $1,700 on improvements. Unfortunately, the Spotify "Loudness" EQ profile doesn't seem to do anything and KEF has not responded to my inquiries about it and I have a feeling I'm stuck there anyway. So, I guess I have two options, get a new source with a loudness EQ and go in through the Aux input, which I think will be kind of an irritation from a functional standpoint, or get new speakers.

So, what speakers do nearfield people like for low volume listening?

Thanks!

It depends on what you want. Do you want monitors or speakers that tell the truth or ones that color the sound?

I want monitors that have flat frequency response and low distortion. You may not. It sound like you do not want monitors, but rather - want pleasure listening speakers that color the sound.

 

[teashea]

As for a recommendation, if you want monitors (not pleasure listening speakers that color the sound), consider Neumann KH80's.

 

[AaronDC]

I’ve had my eye on Genelec and Neumann. I can’t say if I would like a really flat response since I don’t think I have heard that type of speaker in person. Although it appears that both have EQ available which could address my loudness issue. Maybe an in-home trial is in order…

 

[teashea]

I’ve had my eye on Genelec and Neumann. I can’t say if I would like a really flat response since I don’t think I have heard that type of speaker in person. Although it appears that both have EQ available which could address my loudness issue. Maybe an in-home trial is in order…

Both of those are really best referred to as monitors rather than speakers from the perspective that monitors are generally considered as speakers that audio engineers use - which need to have uncolored sound.

 

[AlfaNovember]

I listen to a modest near-field rig, and by far the best improvement was adding DSP correction. I used the inversion method demonstrated by "Obsessive Compulsive Audiophile" on Youtube. The imaging snapped into focus and the overall presentation is more vivid. I had already been doing a harman-style EQ curve, so the benefit does seem to be in the corrections, rather than the house curve EQ that gets baked into the process. Admittedly, the correction lacks any volume-dependent loudness compensation; that's the final step I'm wanting to add, but I do at least get an EQ curve that works well at my preferred listening volume.

In my case, adding the DSP correction meant doing the measurements via REW with the proper mic and A/D interface, and then importing the convolution transform into Roon. The playback is done via RoonBridge running on a Raspberry Pi with a HiFiBerry Amp2 driving old JBL J2060 two-ways. All of the hardware needed to make the measurements is affordable, and needs only be done once a given desk-speaker positioning. How ever it is accomplished, the principle of measuring the in-situ response with a mic and adjusting towards the ideal via DSP is powerful and beneficial.

 

[teashea]

I listen to a modest near-field rig, and by far the best improvement was adding DSP correction. I used the inversion method demonstrated by "Obsessive Compulsive Audiophile" on Youtube. The imaging snapped into focus and the overall presentation is more vivid. I had already been doing a harman-style EQ curve, so the benefit does seem to be in the corrections, rather than the house curve EQ that gets baked into the process. Admittedly, the correction lacks any volume-dependent loudness compensation; that's the final step I'm wanting to add, but I do at least get an EQ curve that works well at my preferred listening volume.

In my case, adding the DSP correction meant doing the measurements via REW with the proper mic and A/D interface, and then importing the convolution transform into Roon. The playback is done via RoonBridge running on a Raspberry Pi with a HiFiBerry Amp2 driving old JBL J2060 two-ways. All of the hardware needed to make the measurements is affordable, and needs only be done once a given desk-speaker positioning. How ever it is accomplished, the principle of measuring the in-situ response with a mic and adjusting towards the ideal via DSP is powerful and beneficial.

DSP can be quite effective. However, it is much better to start with good monitors and then add the DSP so that the DSP does not have to work so hard. An excellent example - Neumann KH150
s

 

[Chromatischism]

Mine: PC > Optical out> Topping EX5 > iLoud MTM

I have Equalizer APO running with the PEACE front end, which has EQ loaded. The EQ was developed in REW based on a moving mic average around my head. This corrects for the room and desk reflection (a dramatic improvement), and you can always curve it a bit to taste. I am flat to 40 Hz without big speakers taking up space, and without subs, and that is enough for this system.

 

[mixsit]

-- I'm a 55 year old male with a dip in my right ear at 8,000Hz from a firecracker incident, so yeah. Not the best. But I can hear loudness on my main system no problem.

72+ here and similar above 7 or 8k, pistoles, gigging, both likely :>)
I mentioned these here a few years back..
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/dmax-audio-super-cubes.17590/

 

[AaronDC]

Today I had the opportunity to listen to a variety of studio monitors at Chuck Levin's in Wheaton, MD. Genelec, Neumann, Focal, Adam and others. At 55-60db all of them sounded the same to me. I believe I need to focus on getting loudness into my existing system. I'm also going to make more of an effort to integrate a sub.

 

[AaronDC]

Aaand I stumbled upon a solution: if I connect via Airplay Spotify's EQ works. I chose Spotify's "Loudness" and juiced it 2x and it helps. Now to dial in a sub...