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Loudspeakers that are neutral, dynamic, full range, and LOUD

jhaider

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Good speakers indeed, but probably not what @SEKLEM is seeking for.
I had both these and MA Silver 10s at the time. XT8Fs are much more polite speakers. Probably a touch more accurate, but lack bass impact and dynamic. Handling power is not impressive (100W), they are less sensitive, and MAs may go way louder without distort.

Hmm.

The Monitor looks like a very strong speaker and well worth an audition here. It may have more bass SPL than the Tannoy due to the twin dedicated 8s. Measurements from Stereophile of the smaller MA tower are generally very good. I haven’t heard either one. The only MA I’ve heard recently was the Silver 6.5” 2-way standmount. I liked the tweeter but in that design it needed a good waveguide. With a smaller midrange a flat waveguide can be OK.

Still, I listened to the Tannoys LOUDLY in our room (about 14’ w x 23’ d x 9.5 or 10’ high) and never heard a complaint on dense orchestral music or “torture tracks” such as Massive Attack’s “Angel.” I had 3 (LCR) and usually listen to 2 channel music upmixed, but if anything that should expose such problems because more content is steered to the center channel. Amp was a 200W ATI - do not remember if it was the old 2007 or current 4007 - so I would not pay attention to the power rating.

I would not call them “polite” either. I listened before measuring. I think people see the treble rolloff at 14k or whatever instead of 20+ kHz and that affects what they hear.

Like all “full range” speakers, both would benefit immensely from room correction (assuming a single listening position). Bass slam is usually a room interaction issue.
 

HammerSandwich

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@SEKLEM, I agree that trying a sub makes sense. The 2CE's extension allows a low XO (60Hz?), which should make integration easier and provide a substantial SPL increase. (Each octave is worth 12dB on Xmax, and you have plenty of watts.)

Please tell us a little more about your system. Because you'd need a high-pass filter before the main amp, the line-level components & cable lengths could affect recommendations.
 
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SEKLEM

SEKLEM

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@SEKLEM, I agree that trying a sub makes sense. The 2CE's extension allows a low XO (60Hz?), which should make integration easier and provide a substantial SPL increase. (Each octave is worth 12dB on Xmax, and you have plenty of watts.)

Please tell us a little more about your system. Because you'd need a high-pass filter before the main amp, the line-level components & cable lengths could affect recommendations.

I’m using a Yamaha RX-V659 as a preamplifier. Optical out from Samsung KS8000 television. Main source is Apple TV 4K. I have a small subwoofer (Athena AS-P400?), but it doesn’t seem to work well with the setup. It’s not ideal. The room is about 25’x13’ and the speakers are on the long wall about 2 feet from the wall, 6-7 feet apart and the same distance to my seat position.
 

Rja4000

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https://www.stereophile.com/content/vandersteen-2ce-signature-ii-loudspeaker-measurements

107Vanfig10.jpg


I do not like.

Here you can see others CSD:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...eo-speaker-measurements-by-danny-richie.8840/
And at 84dB/2.83V @1m, you'd need a ridiculous amount of power to get really loud.

Of course, it all depends what you mean by "Loud".

Those ones should be loud enough for everyone though:
https://www.genelec.com/1236a2
 
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garbulky

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Tekton design is a really nice upgrade to your vanderstrein. Especially the larger towers.
 

Davelemi

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The Forte IIIs play very, very loud with little effort. Not sure they're as neutral as many would like, but are certainly dynamic. (They'll be tucked in tight making room for a Christmas tree for a while)
 

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garbulky

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I haven't heard the electron SE. But I have heard the Pendragon. (note all subjective impressions)
They go very loud and their soundstage size is BIG - like tall, big sound, big dynamics etc. It sounds "live". They are more neutral in frequency response than the Klipsch Forte 3 or the Heresy of which I've heard both.
Compared to the vandersteins (I think the 3c was the one I heard?) they are cleaner, more powerful and go at least as deep or a bit more. The Emotiva T2 has more perceived detail and slightly better tone and less "flat" midrange and treble but doesn't quite have that "tall" soundstage as they are smaller speakers. They also likely won't be able to match the sheer volume. I'm not sure where the Pendragons could be made to distort as I couldn't get it there during my listening :D :D
My Axiom M80 has a more detailed neutral sound with a bit more "3d" to it. But can't match the full range extension of the Pendragon.
 

Sal1950

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Less ugly : large Geithan Ml811: -3db at 28hz
A very interesting design. Having a hard time getting a price.
Guesstimates have been around $30k US?
 

napilopez

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I’m currently running Vandersteen 2Ce Signatures powered by a ICEpower 700ASC2 based Parasound Zonemaster 2350. Power shouldn’t be much of an issue for all but the most ridiculous of speakers. What I’ve found is the Vandersteens, while nice, have clear limitations in output. I’ve had to back off output a couple times because of driver break-up and once I exceeded the x-max of the “active coupler”.

The 2Ce Sigs are pretty much full range, rolling off just below 30Hz. Some of the music I listen to has sudden and surprising amounts of bass which the Vandersteens aren’t capable of handling when I’m pressing the system.

I am not overly fond of subwoofers as they have been difficult for me to integrate. I’m not ruling it out entirely, but I’d prefer the simplicity of a two speaker setup with no subwoofer.

The obvious logic would seem to point toward going up Vandersteen’s line to something bigger.

I’ve also looked at Thiel, in particular the CS2.3, CS2.4, and CS3.6. I remember liking them but also recall them being a fair amount more forward than Vandersteen. I’m wondering if they’d become strident at high output.

I’ve considered looking at Salk, but have no experience with them other than general good word of mouth.

Also considering trying to find an older set of B&W 802Ds. I seem to recall they will play quite loud given enough power.

Any suggestions?

Do you know how loud we're talking about in terms of dB? Are you listening at reference level on your receiver?

Honestly, the first thing I thought about based on your description is a pair of the devialet phantom reactor 900. It sounds exactly like what you describe, but they're absolutely tiny.
Granted, you may not like that if you simply dig the big speaker look.

Very neutral tonality. Big sound from a small package, though you may have to elevate them a bit to give a similar vibe to taller speakers. Bass extends easily into the 20s without sounding sluggish with no audible compression unless you're pushing ear-splitting levels considering your seating distance. The reactor easily outdo the SVS SB1000 I've been running, and I listen to a lot of bass-heavy music.

Granted, I guess I don't listen super loud in general, but my room is both larger than yours and has 16 ft ceilings, and I sit slightly further (~9 feet). Despite this, I could rarely bring myself to push the volume past 60 on the phantom reactors. My measurements on this speaker are available on this forum here, including some in-room measurements showcasing bass compression with spl.

I'd suggest one of the bigger phantoms too, but the only anechoic measurements I could find seem to show significantly worse frequency response and directivity.

There's also the Dutch and Dutch and Kii, but I'm going to go ahead and assume those are out of your price bracket.

Otherwise, I echo the thoughts of others to try to invest in subs. If want to go the single sub route for aesethics, KEF just came out with a sub, the KF92, that it claims extends down to 11Hz at "typical" listening levels and is only about 13-14 inches cubed.
 

maty

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I’m currently running Vandersteen 2Ce Signatures powered by a ICEpower 700ASC2 based Parasound Zonemaster 2350

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...d-power-amplifier-with-icepower-700asc2.9306/

https://www.parasound.com/2350.php
  • 350 watts x 2 @ 8 Ω
  • 600 watts x 2 @ 4 Ω
You do not a problem of watts.

I would try first to modify the frequency response by soft, that to spend money you will always be on time!

Mine KEF Q100 5.25" coaxial:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...phase-vs-linear-phase.8762/page-7#post-225351

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...inimum-phase-vs-linear-phase.8762/post-253826
 

maty

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HammerSandwich

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I’m using a Yamaha RX-V659 as a preamplifier. Optical out from Samsung KS8000 television. Main source is Apple TV 4K. I have a small subwoofer (Athena AS-P400?), but it doesn’t seem to work well with the setup. It’s not ideal. The room is about 25’x13’ and the speakers are on the long wall about 2 feet from the wall, 6-7 feet apart and the same distance to my seat position.
Good info.

If I were in your shoes, I'd test what high-pass settings stop the bass overload. If you filter at 40Hz, can the 2CEs get loud enough? 60Hz? Never? With that knowledge, I think you'll have a better idea of what you need in new speakers, whether towers or subs.
 
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