Loudspeakers for quiet listening, with specific bass feature.

[terryforsythe]

My KEFs can shine, with EQ (I tried RoomEq Wizard- and I'm still learning it) when volume knob is turned up, to unacceptable level (it means for me: not so high).

If I am interpreting this correctly, are you inferring that they do not shine when the volume is low, even with EQ? Our hearing sensitivity vs frequency changes at different SPLs. When listening at low volume, you may want to use the EQ to implement a loudness contour. That may help. This video provides some explanation of hearing sensitivity vs frequency changes at different SPLs:

Personally, I would exhaust your equalization options before spending money on new speakers. If you cannot get the sound you want, or money is less of an issue for you than time, then get new speakers. I am partial to active speakers, but others prefer passive speakers. It comes down to preference. Regardless of which option you choose, try to audition the speakers in person before buying (that is not always practical these days, though). If you cannot audition them before buying, make sure there is a return policy in place that allows you to return them if not satisfied.

As far as Genelecs or iLoud, they both measure well. Genelecs tend to be highly regarded in this forum, but I have not seen too much written about iLoud. That does NOT mean they are not good, just maybe not as popular. But, popular does not always mean better for someone's particular use case.

 

[Wolf11Man]

Try to listen to the Neumann KH 120II. They should replace your KEF and also give you what the small Genelec do. You can add a matching room correction and if you want the lowest octave, there is a subwoofer made for them. For what they are and how they sound, the price is very reasonable. Compared to typical HIFI gear price/ performance/ quality is fantastic. In Europe Thomann got best prices and premium service.

 

[dr_Evil]

I borrowed iLoud micro. From new position (opposite side of the room, much closer to listening site, about 1-1,4 m from speaker), and with some EQ correction trials (I've no matching mic for them)- much better than KEF (in that application). Sound does not fill whole room, have less bass extension, like from KEFs, but I can listen quite quiet , and still have details.
New place is also better, because speakers radiate towards wall with much more obstacles (furnitures, bookshelves, flowers etc).
@terryforsythe, THX, I know isophonic curves, and I tried some "loudness" filters (from PC equalizer). I am still unhappy, maybe I am sitting now too close for these KEFs?
@Wolf11Man , I am really afraid of subwoofers- I remember old "hifi" costructions, making lot of boomy noise, also I fear, without strong acustic modifications, I get more troubles than benefits from subwoofer. On the other side, main speakers can be smaller, easier to place. And Neumann offers AES67- is that means I can only need RJ45 and power cables?

 

[terryforsythe]

@terryforsythe, THX, I know isophonic curves, and I tried some "loudness" filters (from PC equalizer). I am still unhappy, maybe I am sitting now too close for these KEFs?

I don't know. Every speaker design and every room are different. I'm glad you got to try the iLoud before committing.

 

[dualazmak]

Hello, OP @dr_Evil,

I have similar preference especially when I enjoy "early classical music" like lute music; please refer to my hosting thread "Lute Music and Other Early Music: Stunning Recordings We Love".

Of course, "Loudness Control" in "preamplifier" or "in integrated amplifier" would be one of the choices for your present demands.

Another choice of rather intensive/advanced setup would be PC(orMac)-DSP-based multichannel multi-amplifier multi-SP-driver fully active audio configuration where you can implement very much flexible relative gain controls for your SP drivers (including sub-woofers and woofers) in digital domain by DSP as well as in analog domain using HiFi grade pre-amplifiers and or "integrated amplifiers".

In this approach, you can select your amplifiers on the policy of "right-person-in-the-right-place"; you do not need powerful amplifiers for midrange and tweeter (as well as super-tweeter) but you need low-power quiet and high S/N (high SINAD) amplifiers (including Class-A) for them.
Edit:
Japanese wording for "right-person-in-right-place" means "right person/gear/tool in the right/proper job/place".
So, I use it for "right amplifier in the right/suitable place/purpose".

If you would be interested in such approach, you would please find details of my latest audio setup in #931, #1,009 and #1,022 on my project thread.

In my post #931 there, I wrote as follows under the below spoiler cover regarding the pros of relative gain control in analog domain using HiFi "integrated amplifiers".

Spoiler

In my post #931, I wrote;
Here in this post, please let me emphasize again about the pros and merits of relative gain (i.e. tone) control not only in digital domain but also in analog domain using pre-amplifiers or integrated-amplifiers (in my setup). I recently wrote again in my post #56 on a remote thread like these;
Yes, as for safe and flexible tone controls (or I can say "relative gain controls among the multiple SP drivers"), my stance (policy) at least, is that we are encouraged to utilize the "best combination" of "DSP configuration in digital domain" and "analog domain tone controls using HiFi-grade preamplifiers and/or integrated amplifiers".

We need to note (and to respect for) that analog domain tone controls (relative gain controls among the multiple SP drivers) give no effect nor influence at all on the upstream DSP configuration (XO/EQ/Gain/Phase/Polarity/Group-Delay). I believe that this is a great merit of flexible tone controls in analog domain. We know well, on the other hand, in case if we would like to do the "tone/gain controls" only within DSP configurations, such DSP gain controls always affect more-or-less on "XO" "EQ" "phase" and "delay" of the DSP settings which will leads you to possible endless DSP tuning spirals every time; within DSP configurations, XO EQ Gain Phase and Delay are always not independent with each other, but they are always interdependent/on-interaction.

Just for your possible reference, my DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier active system has flexible and safe analog level on-the-fly relative gain controls (in addition to upstream on-the-fly DSP gain controls) for L&R subwoofers, woofers, midrange-squawkers, tweeters, and super-tweeters, all independently and remotely. My post here shows you a typical example case for such safe and flexible on-the-fly analog-level tone controls. This my post (as well as this post) would be also of your interest.

Of course, I know well that I (we) can also perform such relative gain control using DAC8PRO’s 8-channel output gain controllers. I do not like, however, to change the DAC8PRO’s output levels frequently on-the-fly (while listening to music) due to safety and inconvenience concerns; I like to keep DAC8PRO’s analog out gain level always at constant -4 dB which should remain to be usually “untouchable” in my case.

One of the very unique aspects/features of my multichannel audio rig is that I fully utilize four HiFi-grade “integrated amplifiers” plus L&R active subwoofers, each of them have its own gain (volume) controller for safe and flexible relative gain (tone) control in analog domain even on-the-fly i.e. while listening to music.

In this perspective, my posts #438 and #643 should also give you better understandings. Furthermore, my posts #317(remote thread), #313(remote thread) would be also of your reference and interest.

 

[dualazmak]

Furthermore, I assume, it would be important for you establishing and utilizing you own consistent "Audio Reference/Sampler Music Playlist" consists of music tracks selected from various genres of your preference.

Just for your reference, you can find an example of such "Playlist" including rather quiet "Lute Music", "Female Vocal and Counter Tenor in Early Classical Music" as well as Harpsichord (Cembalo, Clavecin) Music" in post #1 on the thread "An Attempt Sharing Reference Quality Music Playlist: at least a portion and/or whole track being analyzed by 3D color spectrum of Adobe Audition".

 

[john61ct]

The main roadblock to getting what you're after is your unfounded biases against the best solutions.

Bass extension to deep frequencies is up to 30% weighting of the factors for perceived SQ "fidelity" and enjoyment of transparent accurate reproduction.

So, subwoofers. And tuning crossovers, precise timing / phase adjustment.

So, DSP for accurate EQ. Including good adjustable Loudness Compensation.

Room compensation EQ especially, is the other factor, often even bigger than bass extension.

NOT talking about BOOSTING relative magnitude, just getting the low end at equivalent SPL as 500+ Hz content.

Both more important than loudspeakers unless your current ones are horrible.

Finally see the "envelopment" thread, consider stereo bass rather than "x.1"

or even going up to multichannel.

All these reco's are well backed by Science.

And yes, it's a rabbit hole, start here @Floyd Toole

Toole, F.E., Olive, S., & Welti, T. (2025). Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers, Rooms and Headphones (4th ed.). Focal Press. https://doi.org/10.4324/9781003477495

 

[Wolf11Man]

I am really afraid of subwoofers- I remember old "hifi" costructions, making lot of boomy noise, also I fear, without strong acustic modifications, I get more troubles than benefits from subwoofer. On the other side, main speakers can be smaller, easier to place. And Neumann offers AES67- is that means I can only need RJ45 and power cables?

A Neumann Sub doesn't make the sound worse, it is a huge improvement at any SPL. It takes load from the main speakers, which improves the reproduction of finest details even more.
Add the Neumann room correction and you got perfect sound, as far as it is possible in your room. You also can fine tune to taste. Compared to HIFI gear the price for that kind of sound quality is just a fraction, because you mentioned "KEF". What you don't get with Neumann, Genelec, Adam, Hed and the like, is a fancy science fiction design of the exterior, made by some bloke without a clue about speaker building.

 

[dr_Evil]

Hello again. Thanks to Your effort and "turbulent" discussion I've found solution. I got pair of second hand genelec 8030 (because offer on the local market appeared), set dipswitches and treat them with Roomeq Wizard and Equalizer APO (+ isophonic correction*). Sound card (so called "audio interface") that I picked, is fair enough- distortion is still far below audible level.
I resigned from listening through whole room, as I previously wanted, instead of, speakers are placed near my position.
In nearst future proper stands are planned.
Decision about obtaining subwoofer is prolonged, I need to listen for some time, to tell if it is satisfying sufficiently.
Good bye "audiophile" gear.

THX again.

*settings obtained from memory