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Loudness Wars and Classical Music

MRC01

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Note: it turns out that my PC had a background app that was boosting the level by +10 dB. This didn’t show up in the audio panel, which had everything set to flat / zero. There was nothing wrong with this recording. However, I’ll leave this here since it talks about how to identify overly hot recordings and fix them as much as possible.

Until recently, classical music has been largely free of loudness wars nonsense. Most classical music recordings are made with maximum transparency, with little or dynamic range compression, equalization, or other processing. Classical music recordings still sound quite different, but the differences are due to the room, how it's miced, types of mics, etc. Post-processing is kept to a minimum compared to other genres.

However, as an Idagio subscriber I’ve been listening to a wide variety of different music and recordings and recently found some that make me worry about this. Here is one example, and a few steps I took to "correct" it in Audacity. I use that word loosely because clipping loses information and any restoration is at best mathematically educated guesswork.

The recording is the Brahms Piano Trios played by Ax, Ma and Kavakos recorded on Sony in 2017. You can find it Idagio, Amazon and other places. When I first started listening to it I thought it was a great performance but it seemed a bit loud; I had to turn down the volume to a lower position than I normally use. Then, when the first crescendo came it sounded just a bit harsh and distorted. Not obvious, but just a bit “strained” sounding.

Out of curiosity I loaded the track into Audacity and this is what I saw:
wave1.png

Oops, that doesn’t look good. Let’s turn on “view clipping”:
wave2.png

Yowza! Those engineers really blasted this recording. Let’s zoom in on one of those clipped parts:
wave3.png

Yep, that is some serious clipping. This is not just intersample overs, it is actual honest-to-goodness clipping. They definitely over-baked this recording. Let’s shift the level down by 6 dB, then apply the “Clip Fix” tool with a threshold of 99%.
wave4.png

Holy smokes Batman! Even after a 6 dB reduction, restoring the peaks still clipped! Those engineers really blasted this recording. Let’s undo the clip fix, undo the 6 dB reduction, then reduce it by 9 dB and do another clip fix. Theoretically I could just undo the clip fix, reduce by 3 more dB, but going back to the start avoids dithering it twice:
wave5.png

OK, that’s looking better. Now let’s look at the entire track, with view clipping enabled:
wave6.png

Good. After applying -9 dB and clip fix to every track, the new peak level was near -1 dB. So all was good. On listening, that harsh strained sound in the crescendos is gone. But of course, this doesn’t actually fix the problem. When the music is clipped, information is forever lost. We don’t know the shape of the waveform when it exceeded 0 dB. All clip fix does is restore a smooth curve which avoids the harsh sound of the sharp edge transitions of clipping.
 
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LTig

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Until recently, classical music has been largely free of loudness wars nonsense. Most classical music recordings are made with maximum transparency, with little or dynamic range compression, equalization, or other processing. Classical music recordings still sound quite different, but the differences are due to the room, how it's miced, types of mics, etc. Post-processing is kept to a minimum compared to other genres.

However, as an Idagio subscriber I’ve been listening to a wide variety of different music and recordings and recently found some that make me worry about this. Here is one example, and a few steps I took to "correct" it in Audacity. I use that word loosely because clipping loses information and any restoration is at best mathematically educated guesswork.

The recording is the Brahms Piano Trios played by Ax, Ma and Kavakos recorded on Sony in 2017. You can find it Idagio, Amazon and other places. When I first started listening to it I thought it was a great performance but it seemed a bit loud; I had to turn down the volume to a lower position than I normally use. Then, when the first crescendo came it sounded just a bit harsh and distorted. Not obvious, but just a bit “strained” sounding.

Out of curiosity I loaded the track into Audacity and this is what I saw:
View attachment 48231
Oops, that doesn’t look good. Let’s turn on “view clipping”:
View attachment 48232
Yowza! Those engineers really blasted this recording. Let’s zoom in on one of those clipped parts:
View attachment 48233
Yep, that is some serious clipping. This is not just intersample overs, it is actual honest-to-goodness clipping. They definitely over-baked this recording. Let’s shift the level down by 6 dB, then apply the “Clip Fix” tool with a threshold of 99%.
View attachment 48234
Holy smokes Batman! Even after a 6 dB reduction, restoring the peaks still clipped! Those engineers really blasted this recording. Let’s undo the clip fix, undo the 6 dB reduction, then reduce it by 9 dB and do another clip fix. Theoretically I could just undo the clip fix, reduce by 3 more dB, but going back to the start avoids dithering it twice:
View attachment 48236
OK, that’s looking better. Now let’s look at the entire track, with view clipping enabled:
View attachment 48238
Good. After applying -9 dB and clip fix to every track, the new peak level was near -1 dB. So all was good. On listening, that harsh strained sound in the crescendos is gone. But of course, this doesn’t actually fix the problem. When the music is clipped, information is forever lost. We don’t know the shape of the waveform when it exceeded 0 dB. All clip fix does is restore a smooth curve which avoids the harsh sound of the sharp edge transitions of clipping. So we still have a fine music performance that deserved to be preserved, not squashed. There is no reason to record it this loud. This recording doesn’t use anywhere near 16 bits of dynamic range, so shifting it down to avoid clipping has no loss of information. Basic recording errors like this would not be made by amateur rookies, let alone professionals — it can only be intentional. The engineers gave up fidelity in order to make it sound as loud as possible. In my view, they betrayed their professional duty. I only hope this recording is a rare exception, not the new norm.
I hope so too. You should return it against a refund.
 
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MRC01

MRC01

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I didn't actually pay for it - listened on Idagio. I have let Idagio support know about this, and 1 other recording I've encountered that had the same issue. They were quite responsive to me, though I don't know whether they actually send the feedback to the company.
 

Dimifoot

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It would be nice if someone had the cd analyzed. I wonder if Idagio is to blame?
 
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MRC01

MRC01

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Idagio is not to blame. In lossless mode (which I was using) they send exactly what the studios give them without processing of any kind. In lossy mode, they only compress with MP3 or AAC - they do not alter it in any other way: no EQ, no dynamic compression.
 

Dimifoot

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they send exactly what the studios give them without processing of any kind.
I hope so, but we can only be sure if we analyze the cd.
 
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MRC01

MRC01

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I've compared lossless Idagio streaming to some the CDs that I have, and they are bit-for-bit identical. I just haven't tested this particular recording, since I don't own it. But Idagio says they don't modify any of their recordings, and other recordings I tested are identical, so evidence suggests they're telling the truth.
That said, if someone has this CD, I can make the last 60 seconds of the first track from Idagio available on a shared folder, if anyone wants to compare. Such a snippet, not an entire track, used for educational purposes should be consistent with fair use under copyright law.
PS: you won't even need this to compare. If you have the CD, just rip track 1 to WAV, open in Audacity, turn on "view clipping"!
 

Soniclife

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Have you tried contacting Sony? It might be human error, or deliberate, if deliberate the more complaints the better.
 

LeftCoastTim

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I heard London Philharmonic’s “50 Greatest” on iTunes and thought “OMG that’s loud and compressed”. That album came out in 2009.

The loudness war has been lost for a long time now.

If the most common places to listen to music are: in the car; headphones in open office layout; etc, then constant volume of music is likely preferred.
 

Daverz

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The recording is the Brahms Piano Trios played by Ax, Ma and Kavakos recorded on Sony in 2017.

For what it's worth, I just downloaded 16/44 and 24/96 FLAC files of this from one of those dodgy free download sites. Both are mastered at a lower level and show no clipping in this track (track 1 on disc 1). Here's a dB waveform view:

(Sorry about the dinky text, the Linux version doesn't handle hi-DPI well.)
Window000.png


For anyone who might have legitimate downloads to compare, the embedded FLAC md5sums are

16/44: 722679d5f75a27cb4967f8810b58bf59
24/96: cb0bdf16289ab50c8acbc8eec46219d6

Perhaps Sony is applying gain to the files they provide to streaming services?

On an unrelated note, it's interesting to see this Ma fellow crossing over from the pop world. He's not bad.
 

Dimifoot

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On an unrelated note, it's interesting to see this Ma fellow crossing over from the pop world.
It’s the other way round ;)
But I suppose you knew that
 
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MRC01

MRC01

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For what it's worth, I just downloaded 16/44 and 24/96 FLAC files of this from one of those dodgy free download sites. Both are mastered at a lower level and show no clipping in this track (track 1 on disc 1). Here's a dB waveform view:
...
Perhaps Sony is applying gain to the files they provide to streaming services?
Hmmm... It appears that is the issue. Idagio didn't squash it, and Sony didn't squash the original recording, but they delivered a squashed version of it to streaming services.
 

Kal Rubinson

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Perhaps Sony is applying gain to the files they provide to streaming services?
Hmmm... It appears that is the issue. Idagio didn't squash it, and Sony didn't squash the original recording, but they delivered a squashed version of it to streaming services.
Like the old AM radio days.
 

Dialectic

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Hmmm... It appears that is the issue. Idagio didn't squash it, and Sony didn't squash the original recording, but they delivered a squashed version of it to streaming services.
Intriguing. Do we know that Sony--and not the streaming services--is to blame?
 

JIW

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I have recorded two samples of the same album from Tidal (EDIT: on full volume) via Audio Hijack on macOS 10.15.3 and analysed them in MATLAB. I chose for both track 1 of disc 1, the first movement of the second trio, using the first and the last two minutes, where according to the above, severe clipping occurs on the Idagio version from @MRC01 but not the retail ones from @Daverz.

In the first two minutes, the maximum sample value is -4.53 dB FS while in the last two minutes, the maximum sample value is -0.49 dB FS. See below for the waveforms.
Ma_Ax_Kavakos__First_two_minutes.png


Ma_Ax_Kavakos__Last_two_minutes.png


Overall, it seems the Tidal version is the retail version which means that not all streaming services have received a squashed version. Maybe they were offered a choice by Sony.

Lastly, @MRC01 you are welcome to give me access to the snippet from Idagio if you want me to put it through MATLAB and compare to the Tidal/retail version. I can equally give anybody interested access to the two two minute snippets and the MATLAB script I used. I think while longer this is still fair use for same the reasons given by @MRC01.
That said, if someone has this CD, I can make the last 60 seconds of the first track from Idagio available on a shared folder, if anyone wants to compare. Such a snippet, not an entire track, used for educational purposes should be consistent with fair use under copyright law.
 
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MRC01

MRC01

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I went back and double checked everything. Turns out my PC had an app running in the background that was boosting the level by +10 dB. This didn't show up in the audio panel which had everything flat.
I spent all that time fixing something that didn't need to be fixed.
False alarm, and lesson learned for me. I edited my original post to note this, to not mislead any readers.
 
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