Lotoo PAW Gold Touch Review (DAP)

[Chromatischism]

On price alone an iPhone with dongle would be better for wired iems and have many other functions too.
They share the same downside of a touch screen, which is needed for versatility in a phone but just a cheap cop out on a DAP IMO.

How is a touch screen a downside?

 

[Frank Dernie]

How is a touch screen a downside?

Jack of all trades, master of the unwanted selection. Acceptable as inevitable in a multiple use device (though should be banned in cars IMO) but a step too cheap and nasty where not a requirement.

 

[Chromatischism]

Jack of all trades, master of the unwanted selection. Acceptable as inevitable in a multiple use device (though should be banned in cars IMO)

I drive Mazdas and they agree. They stopped using touch screens in their cars as everyone else has gone crazy with them to attract buyers.

but a step too cheap and nasty where not a requirement.

I don't agree here. After using touch screen devices for the last 10 years, there is significant functionality that just can not be adequately done with physical controls.

My last DAP was the Creative Zen player. I really liked that. But after I started using Android phones I just didn't see the use case any more.

 

[somebodyelse]

How is a touch screen a downside?

Ever tried using the touchscreen without taking the portable device out of your pocket? Having physical controls identifiable by feel, at least for things like volume, play/pause and track skip, is a real usability advantage. By all means have the touchscreen, but have the physical controls too.

 

[Strato007]

Wolf measured it here
https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/粗壮的小以巴-lotoo-paw-s1测量/

Thanks!!! Doesn't seem to be close

 

[Rottmannash]

The AKM4137EQ is an asynchronous sample rate converter. It appears as though they will use this to resample any input data rate.

I found the manual. For a $3000 device you would hope for something a bit better. It is no better than I would expect in a $100 device. Anyway, it appears as if there is a lot of setup options. All the different filters are there. Some EQ options as well, and software control of the output separately for for 3.5mm and 4.4mm outputs. One can set different gains. +14.4dBu(High Gain) -5.6dBu(Low Gain) I suspect the settings were different for the two outputs, and this explains the difference measured. The difference is 20dB, and this is exactly what Amir measured. So the unbalanced output performance is probably the same as the balanced so long as you set the gains. The instructions give no clue as to how this might be effected.

There are ATE (which I assume are pre-canned equalisation) settings. "Brighter" "Sweet" "Dental".. Dental??? Puts one's teeth on edge perhaps? Again, zero clue in the manual. At this price point that is unforgivable. I would expect a professionally written, expansive and complete manual, and a hard copy in leather binding.

For this much money I would expect an engineer to hand deliver it to me. Dental??

 

[doctorjuggles]

Thanks!!! Doesn't seem to be close

Yeah, multi tone in particular looks poor. It is, however, “only” $170 and can easily transform my iPad into a 4.4mm source, which suits me, but it’s obviously not as good as the LPGT

 

[Labjr]

Some billionaire probably thinking, "I might get this for my dog?"

 

[maverickronin]

Ever tried using the touchscreen without taking the portable device out of your pocket? Having physical controls identifiable by feel, at least for things like volume, play/pause and track skip, is a real usability advantage. By all means have the touchscreen, but have the physical controls too.

Definitely this. Back when my old Rio Karma worked I used to be able to browse to and play a couple of my favorite albums without even needing to look at the screen. No design since has come close.

 

[Strato007]

Yeah, multi tone in particular looks poor. It is, however, “only” $170 and can easily transform my iPad into a 4.4mm source, which suits me, but it’s obviously not as good as the LPGT

I would wait a little... Ztella seems to sound good for what I need.

 

[Chromatischism]

Ever tried using the touchscreen without taking the portable device out of your pocket? Having physical controls identifiable by feel, at least for things like volume, play/pause and track skip, is a real usability advantage. By all means have the touchscreen, but have the physical controls too.

Sure, I can adjust volume and skip tracks with the buttons on the side of my phones. Been doing that since 2010. There may be a way to play/pause but I haven't explored that.

 

[Chromatischism]

I drive Mazdas and they agree. They stopped using touch screens in their cars as everyone else has gone crazy with them to attract buyers.

I don't agree here. After using touch screen devices for the last 10 years, there is significant functionality that just can not be adequately done with physical controls.

My last DAP was the Creative Zen player. I really liked that. But after I started using Android phones I just didn't see the use case any more.

Reading this again, I wanted to just be clear: in the car, the idea is that you're focused on driving on and not fiddling with technology. So the acknowledgement of touchscreen superiority to operate a personal mobile device is a different use case altogether.

Sure, the giant in-car touch screen where all controls can be housed can work. It's just that some automakers have put driving first and actually lock out some features due to safety concerns.

 

[somebodyelse]

Sure, I can adjust volume and skip tracks with the buttons on the side of my phones. Been doing that since 2010. There may be a way to play/pause but I haven't explored that.

I'm glad it works for you. Last I checked it wasn't a standard part of Android, though some phone manufacturers include the button mapping in their firmware. Beyond that there are ways and means, but they aren't necessarily universal or reliable. I can't comment on Apple.

 

[Chromatischism]

I'm glad it works for you. Last I checked it wasn't a standard part of Android, though some phone manufacturers include the button mapping in their firmware. Beyond that there are ways and means, but they aren't necessarily universal or reliable. I can't comment on Apple.

It's usually a function of the player (app) in use.

 

[vcl0124]

If one looks at the AP results in the review, the unbalanced output is swinging 600mV. The balanced output is swinging 6V. 20dB difference. That is exactly the different between the high and low gains configurable on the outputs. It is pretty clear that the unbalanced output was in low gain mode. Why is hard to know. The default, according to the near useless instructions, is high gain mode. Maybe the owner set it to low before Amir got it.
Given how poor the instructions are, it might even have been by mistake.

A dumb question, if tune the volume to match the output voltage between high gain and low gain, will high gain still show better perfornance than low gain?

 

[JohnYang1997]

A dumb question, if tune the volume to match the output voltage between high gain and low gain, will high gain still show better perfornance than low gain?

Low gain will be better.

 

[vcl0124]

Low gain will be better.

Thanks a lot for your quick reply! Can you elaborate more on how you get this conculsion. Just want to understand more.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Thanks a lot for your quick reply! Can you elaborate more on how you get this conculsion. Just want to understand more.

You can have a read here.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/study-headphone-amp-gains-low-or-high.5495/
The input noise + input resistor noise will be amplified by the gain. Lower gain means less noise.
And lower gain usually means more loop gain/feedback. This leads to lower distortion.
So it's better.
Only use high gain when you need it.

 

[vcl0124]

You can have a read here.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/study-headphone-amp-gains-low-or-high.5495/
The input noise + input resistor noise will be amplified by the gain. Lower gain means less noise.
And lower gain usually means more loop gain/feedback. This leads to lower distortion.
So it's better.
Only use high gain when you need it.

I see I see. Then, the bad SINAD of unbalance output should not be caused by low gain. From the SINAD vs output voltage plot (I think it is measured with balance output with high gain), the SINAD won't drop below 105dB even with 600mVrms. Or it quickly roll off after 600mVrms?

 

[Hades]

Hi, I am not familiar with sound measurements and I really enjoy learning on this forum.

I find it a bit strange that of the daps reviewed i read on the forum, this is the only one that did not include jitter tests. I am curious how this dap performs and I can’t find jitter measurements of this dap anywhere on the internet. Although, while searching for the jitter measurements of this dap, I did come across a website that uses a chart to rank playback accuracy for daps and PAW Gold Touch placed similar to iPad Air. I find this to be confusing. Can anyone tell me what I am missing?

Do you have access to the dap to measure its jitter performance?