• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Looks like Drop might be 'dropping' a HD800

DivineCurrent

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
Messages
109
Likes
135
The 8XX definitely requires EQ for my preferences. 1-2kHz is certainly way too recessed. I compared them to the Focal Clear MG and HD650 for a Head-Fi loaner program, it really does sound almost exactly how it measures. I needed an 8 dB boost there for it to sound normal. That being said, the 8XX equalizes extremely well, and you can tune it to exactly how you want because the driver is so high quality and low distortion. Also the treble is very smooth. But at this new discount, it's a very good option if you don't mind EQ.
 
Last edited:

bigjacko

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Sep 18, 2019
Messages
721
Likes
359
Everyone is bashing the freuqnecy response, but I never care about frequency response except for resosnance, because I have eq..... For me frequency reeponse is the least important aspect for headphone.
 

odyo

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Oct 30, 2019
Messages
636
Likes
320
Everyone is bashing the freuqnecy response, but I never care about frequency response except for resosnance, because I have eq..... For me frequency reeponse is the least important aspect for headphone.
Yeah if you gonna EQ and if it responds well, it's a good deal at $700. Worth noting you can't make this HD800S though. It's physically different. EQ will make this better HD8XX, not HD800S.
 

tknx

Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
84
Likes
58
So the sticker thing is a maybe.

And then there is Maxx mod where he is using some Dynamat and other stuff on an 800S and claims to have fixed the 800s problems.

So does that make this thing at all worth it is the question. Because right now it seems even with the price increases, a 6XX is a better headphone.
 

bigjacko

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Sep 18, 2019
Messages
721
Likes
359
Yeah if you gonna EQ and if it responds well, it's a good deal at $700. Worth noting you can't make this HD800S though. It's physically different. EQ will make this better HD8XX, not HD800S.
What is the difference of hd8xx and hd800s I'd frequency,response are the same? All other properties should be the same.
 

odyo

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Oct 30, 2019
Messages
636
Likes
320
What is the difference of hd8xx and hd800s I'd frequency,response are the same? All other properties should be the same.
Physical differences both inside of the cup and back of the driver.
FlNqYae.jpeg
 

solderdude

Grand Contributor
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
15,891
Likes
35,912
Location
The Neitherlands
These are done to create the small boost in the lows. The idea is to make the metal mesh less 'acoustical' transparent. A bit similar to the modifications often seen by SBAF (using drawer lining partly blocking the mesh).

It looks like Drop relied a bit too much on the preferences of the SBAF guru who claims the HD8XX is what the HD800 should have been.
Also the resonator seems to have been tuned slightly differently.
 

LaL

Active Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Messages
140
Likes
94
These are done to create the small boost in the lows. The idea is to make the metal mesh less 'acoustical' transparent. A bit similar to the modifications often seen by SBAF (using drawer lining partly blocking the mesh).

It looks like Drop relied a bit too much on the preferences of the SBAF guru who claims the HD8XX is what the HD800 should have been.
Also the resonator seems to have been tuned slightly differently.

DMS believes they also put extra damping foam on the back of the 8xx driver compared to the 800s.
It seems almost impossible to go into the back to remove it without damaging the driver assembly.
The front driver membrane is glued so only the very skilled/brave could take it apart.
You can see part of the manufacture at 0:20 in this video.

8xx 3.jpg



hd8xx.jpg


hd8xx.jpg
 
Last edited:

solderdude

Grand Contributor
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
15,891
Likes
35,912
Location
The Neitherlands
Looks like the holes have a different damping material which will have impact on the bass area.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LaL

tknx

Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
84
Likes
58
I would love for Senn to comment on what happened in general with the 800 series. Like so many people prefer the 600 tuning it is ridiculous and they have taken multiple bites at it with different versions.
 

maverickronin

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 19, 2018
Messages
2,527
Likes
3,308
Location
Midwest, USA
I would love for Senn to comment on what happened in general with the 800 series. Like so many people prefer the 600 tuning it is ridiculous and they have taken multiple bites at it with different versions.

To me at least, it seems clear that they prioritized soundstage over frequency response. They also stuck with traditional methods of tuning the frequency response which limits how far they can correct it after designing the cups and driver position for maximum soundstage.

The audiophool market would piss and moan if they built in a passive filter like @solderdude designed. A "meta" material solution might work such as with DCA's Stealth, but that's basically brand new in the headphone space.

When it first came out and for years after the HD800 (and the HD800S, which was little better than pissing in the wind) was a complete no go for me because of the wonky response that made it completely unlistenable stock. In the last few years there have been some good hardware EQ products such as the RME-ADI2 DAC and Quadelix 5K which make them very usable for me so now I own a pair of OG HD800s.
 

odyo

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Oct 30, 2019
Messages
636
Likes
320
I would love for Senn to comment on what happened in general with the 800 series. Like so many people prefer the 600 tuning it is ridiculous and they have taken multiple bites at it with different versions.

I haven't heard them yet but i don't get the hate. Looking at graphs, HD800S seem to have the best tuning compared to it's competitors. It just lacks the bass but almost every open back lacks the bass.

Arya is brighter and have more scoop at 1.5k
LCD X have 10 db scoop at 3-4k
Clear MG is a joke
graph (9).png

See how similar it is to HE-1. It has 3db hotness around 5 to 6k that's all. (graph is smoothed to show general trend)





Audiophiles have so much bias towards 600 series. It's legacy surpasses it's actual sound quality. Looking at a graph, it has the same weak bass, muted treble (every audiophile offended by treble i don't know if they are really ''audiophile'' or not) and exaggerated shouty 3k which is another audiophile fetish.
 

tknx

Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
84
Likes
58
Hmm. When I have a chance I’ll have to compare to the 600. I get pretty skeptical with reviews of the TOTL models that break into ridiculous price points since that is somewhere where blinding really is needed.
 

tknx

Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
84
Likes
58
@odyo can you put up a graph of the 800S, the 600 and the RE-1?
 

odyo

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Oct 30, 2019
Messages
636
Likes
320
graph (16).png

graph (15).png

You can compare whatever you want in crinacle's site. Convenient tool.
 

tknx

Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
84
Likes
58
So at least from a Harman curve view - it looks like the extended treble of the HE-1 and 800S are pretty much the same, but the 600 rolls off which is definitely going to be more forgiving. The drop out around 2K is pretty consistent there in the 800/HE-1, and I expect is why people prefer the 600 in general.

The HE-1 and 800S tracking so closely is actually pretty surprising. I wonder if the waterfall would show more of a difference. Somewhere there is either (a) some difference not captured here or (b) people are just being influenced by the TOTL status of the HE-1 and it is being over-rated.

Anyway, I don't have a subscription to crin, so seems like I can't stick up two at the same time.
 

solderdude

Grand Contributor
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
15,891
Likes
35,912
Location
The Neitherlands
These comparison plots are heavily smoothed so one can see the tonal balance differences more clearly. As a result sharp peaks that can be heard are not shown.
 

staticV3

Master Contributor
Joined
Aug 29, 2019
Messages
7,534
Likes
12,001
So at least from a Harman curve view - it looks like the extended treble of the HE-1 and 800S are pretty much the same, but the 600 rolls off which is definitely going to be more forgiving. The drop out around 2K is pretty consistent there in the 800/HE-1, and I expect is why people prefer the 600 in general.

The HE-1 and 800S tracking so closely is actually pretty surprising. I wonder if the waterfall would show more of a difference. Somewhere there is either (a) some difference not captured here or (b) people are just being influenced by the TOTL status of the HE-1 and it is being over-rated.

Anyway, I don't have a subscription to crin, so seems like I can't stick up two at the same time.
You can compare up to two headphones and one target/two targets and one headphone with the free version. Here's the HE-1 and HD800S vs OE2018: https://crinacle.com/graphing/toolheadphonefree.html?share=Harman_AE_OE_2018_Target,HE-1,HD800S
 

odyo

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Oct 30, 2019
Messages
636
Likes
320
graph (3).png

Yes this is how it looks without any smoothing. HD800S is 3db hotter at 6k. I think this tuning overall is their end goal. They executed better with the HE-1. Worth noting, harman target is also a smoothed target. It's not fine grained. Every headphone have jaggies above 5k.
 

tknx

Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
84
Likes
58
So looking at the smoothed chart of the 600 and the 800, isn’t the 600 adhering closer to Harman?
 
Top Bottom