Looks like Class D is the only option for ultra clean, high power amplification

[SSS]

I say it again,that's for cheap.
Cause if price is not of concern here's an example:

View attachment 300277

View attachment 300278

Of course it's 40K$.

Great specs. seems to be some kind of class-A ? Which product is it, just for interest ? Did not know of these extreme low distortion figures at high power.

 

[Sokel]

Great specs. seems to be some kind of class-A ? Which product is it, just for interest ? Did not know of these extreme low distortion figures at high power.

Edited my post adding the amp,source,etc.

 

[dasdoing]

obviously it seems many here are unaware of modern cultural zeitgeist

lol. how do you expect everybody to be in that same bubble as you? as big as it may seam

 

[CleanSound]

More to do with the speaker sensitivity... many floorstanders are more sensitive than bookshelves. But yeah, big drivers are big drivers too.


JSmith

Ahh. . .I planned on starting a thread on this very topic sometimes, speaker sensitivity. Anyway, when I say big, I meant speakers with a lot of drivers and big drivers. I know you have the sensitivity measurement, but from my experience, the more drivers and the bigger the drivers, the more power it requires to drive them. I'll start another thread on this topic, I am not very knowledgeable on the science and engineering on speakers.

 

[Everett T]

McIntosh? Krell? Etc...

I sold my last McIntosh amp in 2015/16. No way I'm pulling 100# plus amps out the rack to clean them ever again. They're pretty and they're pretty painful, lol.

 

[Deleted member 21219]

from my experience, the more drivers and the bigger the drivers, the more power it requires to drive them.

Your experience is the opposite of my experience. The big JBL speakers (and the older Altecs), the Legacy Whispers and the old Hartley Concertmasters took very little power to reach very loud levels.

However, there is a kicker that might explain your statement. Other than the Hartleys, I heard all these in LARGE rooms. That meant that the listeners sat much further away from the speakers than they would have in smaller rooms, and SPLs therefore declined at what I assume to have been 6dB/octave.

A 6dB SPL difference is a quadruple electrical power difference. That might be the source of your impressions.

Jim

 

[fpitas]

Yes, the basic physics says larger drivers are more sensitive, all things being equal. Or arrays of small drivers.

 

[CleanSound]

Your experience is the opposite of my experience. The big JBL speakers (and the older Altecs), the Legacy Whispers and the old Hartley Concertmasters took very little power to reach very loud levels.

However, there is a kicker that might explain your statement. Other than the Hartleys, I heard all these in LARGE rooms. That meant that the listeners sat much further away from the speakers than they would have in smaller rooms, and SPLs therefore declined at what I assume to have been 6dB/octave.

A 6dB SPL difference is a quadruple electrical power difference. That might be the source of your impressions.

Jim

Yes, the basic physics says larger drivers are more sensitive, all things being equal. Or arrays of small drivers.

This will be a very interesting and knowledge revealing topic for many of us, myself included. I'll start another thread on this later.

 

[Matias]

The tests and specs show that 2 Ohms and below for the majority of class D stuff is not yet ready for prime time like a hearty low impedance drive class A/AB amp is. The Purify has been 2 Ohm rated and the newer Hypex is too but I don't see them at less than 2 Ohms rated.

Buckeye Amps: Purifi 1ET6525SA (the successor to the 1ET400A)

Thanks. Here is a photo of the internals of the amp I purchased. Can anyone tell if the upgrade has been performed? Sorry I missed that, didn't get a notification. Those look like the original speaker binding post connectors, not the new ones

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Gorgonzola]

A pair of Topping LA90's will get you into Purifi/Hypex territory, but the fact is those class D's are the game.

I'd suggest Topping won't consider Purifi/Hypex/ICEpower modules because the couldn't price their amps where they want to. Same for the likes of Dirac Live DSP.

 

[Everett T]

Buckeye Amps: Purifi 1ET6525SA (the successor to the 1ET400A)

Thanks. Here is a photo of the internals of the amp I purchased. Can anyone tell if the upgrade has been performed? Sorry I missed that, didn't get a notification. Those look like the original speaker binding post connectors, not the new ones

www.audiosciencereview.com

It's possible that we don't have proper test/gear to get reliable measurements down that low with sinewave testing and Class D. It's been discussed by some reviewers/EEs and was a bit over my head to remember the specifics.

 

[mhardy6647]

This will be a very interesting and knowledge revealing topic for many of us, myself included. I'll start another thread on this later.

"Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it"
There seems to be much past-repeating in many areas of human endeavor nowadays.

 

[jomo]

A pair of Topping LA90's will get you into Purifi/Hypex territory, but the fact is those class D's are the game.

I'd suggest Topping won't consider Purifi/Hypex/ICEpower modules because the couldn't price their amps where they want to. Same for the likes of Dirac Live DSP.

LA90's have been a proven reliability disaster....and two? Who cares about low distortion when it clicks and pops! Amir should unrecommend this product until it is proven fixed. Seems like a number of Topping power amps have had issues in the past and the trend continues.

If CleanSound must have <0.001% distortion, Matias has provided all the information one could ever need (post #109) to make a decision. The only thing his amplifier list does not provide is a column for reliability. In that regard, the Topping LA90 would fall like a rock.

 

[manisandher]

LA90's have been a proven reliability disaster....

No.

LA90s seem to be solid - I have 3. It's the LA90Ds that seem to be unreliable.

 

[tmtomh]

I would hope we could agree on a couple of basic points:

1. Class D is not the only option for audibly transparent amps with sufficient power and current-handling capacity for most speakers.
2. Class D is the dominant option for relatively affordable amplifiers with significant power and excellent measured performance.
3. Class D is the best option if you want high power, low weight, low heat, excellent measured performance, and decent to very good watts per dollar. You can get at least two of those qualities with many non-Class D amps, but it's a lot harder to get all five with anything but Class D.

I seems to me that a lot of the disagreement in this thread is not about any of these points. Instead, much of the disagreement seems to implicitly be about whether it matters that the best Class D amps have "three zeros instead of two zeros" (as @CleanSound has written above) of measured THD after the decimal place. In other words, some folks are questioning, and occasionally mocking, CleanSound's choice of "ultra clean" aka THD way beyond audible transparency, as the benchmark (no pun intended) for this discussion.

 

[CleanSound]

I seems to me that a lot of the disagreement in this thread is not about any of these points. Instead, much of the disagreement seems to implicitly be about whether it matters that the best Class D amps have "three zeros instead of two zeros" (as @CleanSound has written above) of measured THD after the decimal place. In other words, some folks are questioning, and occasionally mocking, CleanSound's choice of "ultra clean" aka THD way beyond audible transparency, as the benchmark (no pun intended) for this discussion.

I even said many times, my guess is that the human hearing threshold is maybe somewhere around .5%. And I am confident that you will not hear the difference with anything below that. But I don't know why people can't understand that and keep asking why I need so many zero's. The short answer is because I want to.

But here is the long answer why, but zero's alone is not the only thing that matters.

Ultra extreme audio specs

I reckon that most If not all people do not have the physical ability to hear the difference between 120 SINAD vs. 95 SINAD, so why bother with 120 SINAD? Because I personally appreciate the engineering chops when you can get to 120 SINAD. It makes me feel good and have pride of ownership of...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[tmtomh]

I even said many times, my guess is that the human hearing threshold is maybe somewhere around .5%. And I am confident that you will not hear the difference with anything below that. But I don't know why people can't understand that and keep asking why I need so many zero's. The short answer is because I want to.

But here is the long answer why, but zero's alone is not the only thing that matters.

Ultra extreme audio specs

I reckon that most If not all people do not have the physical ability to hear the difference between 120 SINAD vs. 95 SINAD, so why bother with 120 SINAD? Because I personally appreciate the engineering chops when you can get to 120 SINAD. It makes me feel good and have pride of ownership of...

www.audiosciencereview.com

To be clear, I'm not saying I agree with the folks who are criticizing or mocking you. "Because I want to" is a totally valid answer, and I appreciate your being open and direct about it. And per the thread you linked to, I agree that there are definitely good reasons for seeking out measured performance that is well beyond audible transparency - using our money to support good engineering is one good reason as noted in the thread, as is ensuring there's "headroom" for when we play at lower volume, insert DSP into the chain, and so on.

 

[Birdy]

I would hope we could agree on a couple of basic points:

1. Class D is not the only option for audibly transparent amps with sufficient power and current-handling capacity for most speakers.
2. Class D is the dominant option for relatively affordable amplifiers with significant power and excellent measured performance.
3. Class D is the best option if you want high power, low weight, low heat, excellent measured performance, and decent to very good watts per dollar. You can get at least two of those qualities with many non-Class D amps, but it's a lot harder to get all five with anything but Class D.

I seems to me that a lot of the disagreement in this thread is not about any of these points. Instead, much of the disagreement seems to implicitly be about whether it matters that the best Class D amps have "three zeros instead of two zeros" (as @CleanSound has written above) of measured THD after the decimal place. In other words, some folks are questioning, and occasionally mocking, CleanSound's choice of "ultra clean" aka THD way beyond audible transparency, as the benchmark (no pun intended) for this discussion.

I agree with these 3 points but will ad that class D amp's brought high quality sound for low income people all over the world. Now not only fat cats can listen hi end but many thanks to TI and others and the Chineze producers. I had a 2 x 35 watt class A tube amp (8x PL519) 15 kg, and a vintage Toshiba SB620 14 kg 2 x 60 watt AB beast, both great amp's and my a07 is not far off from both for $ 50 and 0,5 kg. This is the future and i hope TI comes with a killer chip one day, then it's game over for all the hi end bling bling.

 

[CleanSound]

"Because I want to" is a totally valid answer, and I appreciate your being open and direct about it.

100% and the fact of the matter is, I am not the only one who just "want to," there are plenty of others who simply "want to" as well. . .and there is nothing anyone can say or do to change people "wanting to."

I also want to be clear, I own a Yamaha A-S2200, and I love it. I love it for the brand history, it's legacy in HiFi, the stunning good looks, the sound of all the relays when you power it on, the mesmerizing UV meters. And it measures .07%, and I know I can't hear any difference.

 

[radix]

100% and the fact of the matter is, I am not the only one who just "want to," there are plenty of others who simply "want to" as well. . .and there is nothing anyone can say or do to change people "wanting to."

I also want to be clear, I own a Yamaha A-S2200, and I love it. I love it for the brand history, it's legacy in HiFi, the stunning good looks, the sound of all the relays when you power it on, the mesmerizing UV meters. And it measures .07%, and I know I can't hear any difference.

I bought my 2x AHB2 so I could get 380 wpc (8R). Do I need that? Not absolutely. But I wanted to get the last amps I will ever need to drive my floor-standers (F228be). It's totally quiet when nothing is playing and has super sound. Though I would argue that 380 wpc is needed with a 3m listening distance and 90 db sensitivity speakers in a large, unsealed room for when I want to really crank it up.