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Looking to upgrade my system. Subwoofer vs new speakers

qec

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My current setup consists of:

Adcom GFA 555 amp
Adcom GTP 500 preamp
Topping EX5 DAC
Audio-Technica 120 Phonograph
C-Note speakers (home made)

I have other setups and what not but I'm looking to improve this one. I think the best place to spend my money is on transducers (speakers) and not on the other stuff. With that in mind I have about $1000 to play with. I'm currently torn two ways: Subwoofer or new speakers to replace the C-Notes. I am attracted to the Elac DBR-62 speakers (which come in white which is a bonus) which run around $600 and use the C-Notes elsewhere OR the SVS 3000 micro sub (also in white) which is $900 and keep the C-Notes. This is purely for 2 channel music driving a room which is 11'x20' but the speakers are located about 12' from the listening position. Only one person will be listening. The current setup sounds pretty good so I'm not trying to fix something that is broken. This is more of a polishing exercise. Not adverse to getting floor speakers but would prefer bookshelf if possible on stands because they are more flexible

Thanks in advance
 

Kal Rubinson

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The current setup sounds pretty good so I'm not trying to fix something that is broken. This is more of a polishing exercise. Not adverse to getting floor speakers but would prefer bookshelf if possible on stands because they are more flexible
Sure but why do you think you need more? I, for one, have no idea what the C-Notes are or what they sound like, so it's impossible to answer your question.
 
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qec

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@karl Rubinson

Fair question. I feel like my current speakers don't feel "full" enough and based on the drivers I think more base response would help particularly given the volume of the room. For those who don't know, the C-Notes are speaker kits sold in the USA. The are about $100 (hence the name) for the kit. Amir measured then a while ago and they did pretty good. I've always liked them but they were used in a near field arrangement. Now they have been pressed into "main system" duty. Before I was using Klipsch RB-5 which look beautiful and fill a room with sound but are too bright for my liking. I know I could play around with EQ and reduce the brightness but I would rather keep them in my home theater and do something different in my 2 channel setup.
 

hex168

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C-Notes:
 

hex168

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At these prices, might be worth checking out (beauty, however, is in the eye of the beholder):

or

and:
 
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qec

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regarding the Studio 530, good god they are ugly! I just read Amir's review and he seemed to suggest the Elac's if you can swing the price but the JBL's offered good value on sale, which they are now.
 

GD Fan

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Have you taken (REW) measurements of your room? That would help the prescription.
 

Chrispy

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regarding the Studio 530, good god they are ugly! I just read Amir's review and he seemed to suggest the Elac's if you can swing the price but the JBL's offered good value on sale, which they are now.
Studio 5 series looks aren't for everyone, but most speakers are ugly anyways. Elacs IMO aren't much better in the looks department. Both could likely use some better construction of cabs, tho.

Anyways, back to original concept, I'd get the subs first and see how much of your problems they might help with but you have poor gear to integrate subs with otoh.
 
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qec

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@Chrispy
You mentioned that I have "poor gear to integrate subs with". Can you explain that? The SVS 3000 micro has a fair amount of DSP capability which I should be able to use to tweak the cross over.
 

Kal Rubinson

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@karl Rubinson
I don't know him.
Fair question. I feel like my current speakers don't feel "full" enough and based on the drivers I think more base response would help particularly given the volume of the room. For those who don't know, the C-Notes are speaker kits sold in the USA. The are about $100 (hence the name) for the kit. Amir measured then a while ago and they did pretty good. I've always liked them but they were used in a near field arrangement. Now they have been pressed into "main system" duty. Before I was using Klipsch RB-5 which look beautiful and fill a room with sound but are too bright for my liking. I know I could play around with EQ and reduce the brightness but I would rather keep them in my home theater and do something different in my 2 channel setup.
OK. I would certainly be surprised if those C-Notes without a sub and without EQ would be satisfying in your room and at a 12' listening distance. My recommendation and, it seems, those of others is to replace the speakers. I would suggest floorstanders and I would not bother with a sub until/unless you do. My specific knowledge is quite limited in your price range.
 

fineMen

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C-Note speakers (home made)
Best ticket to satisfaction, in my opinion:
1) get Yourself a measuring microphone
- would serve for occasional home recording too; me recorded bats, ultrasonic, in the backyard this year ;-)
2) train in doing measurements
3) integrate an equalizer
4) try to compensate the lack of fullness
5) possibly buy another set of speakers
6) re-use (1) .. (4)
 
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qec

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Kal, fineMen,

Thanks for the responses. I agree that the best approach is to start with measurements. That sort of thing has always interested me anyway. I have a Blue Yeti mic I use for Zoom calls and delivering training. Could I use that? It has cardioid and omnidirectional pickup modes.
Regarding equalizers, I have Equalizer APO installed on my lap top. Still have not play around much with it. However it would only help with streaming music not anything from my phonograph.
I will do some research on floorstand speakers. Never had much interest in those in the past after I sold my Klipsch KG-4's. Bookshelf speakers seem much easier to live with.
 

Kal Rubinson

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I have a Blue Yeti mic I use for Zoom calls and delivering training. Could I use that? It has cardioid and omnidirectional pickup modes.
Probably not although you can give it a shot. Since you do not know the FR of that mic, it's usefulness as a reference is limited. Generally, one needs to use a calibrated or purpose-designed microphone. $100 and up.
 
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qec

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Can you suggest one that is on the less expensive side of things. What does the mic drive? I assume a piece of software on a laptop. If so, which one?
 

dominikz

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Kal, fineMen,

Thanks for the responses. I agree that the best approach is to start with measurements. That sort of thing has always interested me anyway. I have a Blue Yeti mic I use for Zoom calls and delivering training. Could I use that? It has cardioid and omnidirectional pickup modes.
Regarding equalizers, I have Equalizer APO installed on my lap top. Still have not play around much with it. However it would only help with streaming music not anything from my phonograph.
I will do some research on floorstand speakers. Never had much interest in those in the past after I sold my Klipsch KG-4's. Bookshelf speakers seem much easier to live with.
Without a mic calibration file you cannot be 100% certain your results are valid - on the other hand most condeser mic have a relatively flat frequency response on-axis, and if they have an omni polar pattern (and no low-cut) will probably work just fine to measure and fix the bass response.
I refer you to this post for a comparison of a calibrated measurement mic vs an uncalibrated large-diaphragm condeser.
 

Chrispy

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Can you suggest one that is on the less expensive side of things. What does the mic drive? I assume a piece of software on a laptop. If so, which one?

Many use REW (Room EQ Wizard) freeware (but please contribute). Popular measurement usb mics are from miniDSP (Umik-1, Umik-2) and Dayton (UMM-6 by itself or combined with their full mic & software kit via Omnimic V2 and/or DATS).

In terms of gear to integrate does the micro sub has an actual crossover or just a low pass filter? What eq capabilities? Provision for what in regards to phase/delay? You using that in a small room?
 
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qec

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Update: After much back and for and reading I've decided to go with the Elac's and build my own subwoofer. Dayton has an interesting plate subwoofer amp with DSP capability. To that I'm going to go with a 8 or 10" driver with specs focused on music with the goal of making the enclosure as small as possible.
Finally per Kal/Chrispy's suggestion I'm going to pick up a miniDSP mic and get the required software. Looking forward to the holidays when I have some time to put this all together and play around with the sound.
Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions.
 
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