Looking for suggestions on adding DAC with MQA support using FireTV as streamer

[Beershaun]

I'm not sure what you are suggesting.

 

[Theriverlethe]

I'm not sure what you are suggesting.

The link you provided shows distortion components below -90dB. There’s no way they’re audible with complex signals.

 

[Beershaun]

Are you saying that the only impact of electrical noise and distortion on music reproduction is whether or not it is physically audible or not?

 

[Theriverlethe]

Are you saying that the only impact of electrical noise and distortion on music reproduction is whether or not it is physically audible or not?

I’m saying it would be masked by the non-linear distortion of your transducers, if that wasn’t already masked by the signal.

 

[Beershaun]

OK. I don't want to go off topic and debate the impact of electrical noise and distortion on music reproduction. I suppose I practically welcomed the comment when I talked about the subjective improvement the E30 had on my system.

Based on my travails going through this experiment to see if I can use a Fire TV to do all the things I want, I think I"m going to just have to settle for plugging the optical out of the TV into the E30 and then have a separate streamer/transport for my 24bit and MQA listening and plug that in via USB to the E30 or eventually swap it for an MQA supported DAC. This will give me better sound when my family just wants to use the FireTV to play music. Even if it's not the highest fidelity bit perfect playback. It's an improvement.

Sooo now going to follow some of the suggestions above. I have a LG V10 that will give me the native app support for Tida MQA l, Spotify, Plex as a streaming transport. I can plug my audioquest dragontail into that to give me a USB output. Then use USB Audio Player Pro to override the android audio driver limitations to get bitperfect output.

Or I can run SP/DIF out of my rbpi to get bitperfect audio out, but won't have native MQA support.

Sigh...this is why the vast majority of people don't want to be bothered and just want a soundbar and bluetooth airpods.

 

[Beershaun]

The LGV10 w USB Audio Player Pro and dragontail worked just fine to send Tidal, Plex, etc. to my E30 DAC. I was receiving the same sample Rates as what was specified in the file Metadata or on the phone display for the app. So that works to fully utilize the capabilities of the DAC and get the native app support I want. I'm back to using my Bubble upnp app on my phone as the remote control for my music selection.

I ordered a hifiberry digi+ pro SPDIF HAT and I'll try out using the Raspberry PI with that and decide which I like better.

For family convienience I guess I'll just plug the optical out from the TV into the same DAC and just manually switch it to my final streamer solution when I settle on it.

 

[Beershaun]

Writing up my conclusion for posterity and for those who may walk down the same road in the future.

Conclusion as of 7-1-20:
The FireTV is not a viable option to stream MQA format music at full unfold or for those who wish to stream bitperfect audio other than 16/48khz to an external DAC.

The underlying problem is the Android/FireOS operating system as of this writing does not natively allow bit perfect audio out of either a USB port, optical port, or HDMI port. Everything sent out is resampled to 16/48khz no matter the source file.

You can still use an external DAC if you choose via optical or HDMI. You just need to be content that you will only get 16/48khz and MQA will end at the first unfold by the native music apps on the device.

solutions like Roon and USB Audio Player Pro that work to enable bitperfect audio output via USB from Android phones are not currently available on FireTV.

Recommendation:
If you want to have the best file quality possible with the convenience and UI of FireTV choose a DAC that will use your TV's optical output and take best advantage of 16/48khz audio. If you wish to take full advantage of MQA and bitperfect audio at sample rates above 16bit/48khz, then set up a separate streaming endpoint that supports bitperfect audio and passes through MQA separately with a separate DAC (or plug into a secondary input on the same DAC) and be content with having to manage that with a separate control point.

Thanks to all who have provided your suggestions and ideas along the way in this thread! I appreciate your interest and insight as I was able to use your suggestions to find a workable path.

 

[Gphoton]

Writing up my conclusion for posterity and for those who may walk down the same road in the future.

Conclusion as of 7-1-20:
The FireTV is not a viable option to stream MQA format music at full unfold or for those who wish to stream bitperfect audio other than 16/48khz to an external DAC.

The underlying problem is the Android/FireOS operating system as of this writing does not natively allow bit perfect audio out of either a USB port, optical port, or HDMI port. Everything sent out is resampled to 16/48khz no matter the source file.

You can still use an external DAC if you choose via optical or HDMI. You just need to be content that you will only get 16/48khz and MQA will end at the first unfold by the native music apps on the device.

solutions like Roon and USB Audio Player Pro that work to enable bitperfect audio output via USB from Android phones are not currently available on FireTV.

Recommendation:
If you want to have the best file quality possible with the convenience and UI of FireTV choose a DAC that will use your TV's optical output and take best advantage of 16/48khz audio. If you wish to take full advantage of MQA and bitperfect audio at sample rates above 16bit/48khz, then set up a separate streaming endpoint that supports bitperfect audio and passes through MQA separately with a separate DAC (or plug into a secondary input on the same DAC) and be content with having to manage that with a separate control point.

Thanks to all who have provided your suggestions and ideas along the way in this thread! I appreciate your interest and insight as I was able to use your suggestions to find a workable path.

Would an Android TV box running USB Audio Pro work? You may be forced to run one with Android rather than Android TV OS. Not sure if USB Audio Pro would work with Android TV OS, but the TV boxes are cheap. Nvidia Shield, Mibox S and the Wal-Mart Jetstream box will all do 4K Netflix, but run TV OS

 

[Gphoton]

Would an Android TV box running USB Audio Pro work? You may be forced to run one with Android rather than Android TV OS. Not sure if USB Audio Pro would work with Android TV OS, but the TV boxes are cheap. Nvidia Shield, Mibox S and the Wal-Mart Jetstream box will all do 4K Netflix, but run TV OS

http://www.extreamsd.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=745

 

[Beershaun]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll need to look in to how I can side load the Android app store and access usb audio player pro to see if it will work on firetv. That would be an improvement over the current state on the device.

 

[Beershaun]

A recent update on this topic. Still no solution for bit-perfect and MQA support but this Xiaomi allows a USB DAC so this seems like a good solution for an affordable streamer using your favorite streaming service's own fully functional Apps at CD quality in a hi-fi system.

https://darko.audio/2020/10/15-more-thoughts-on-the-xiaomi-mi-box-s/

 

[Yang62]

I was able to side load usb audio player pro on a xiaomi tv box s. You need to email the software developers and they will email u a link to the file. You can then download the app to your xiaomi mi box s using downloader app. It is not a android tv app so you wont be able to navigate the app correctly without a Bluetooth or virtual mouse app. Anyway, i can confirm that usb audio player pro works the same as if it was installed in an android phone and is able to output bit perfect to your dac. I steeamed tidal masters and it displayed magenta color when hooked up to my ifi dac indicating mqa.

 

[Beershaun]

That's great news. Thanks for sharing. so it's now possible with those workarounds.

 

[Yang62]

I followed darkos set up exactly and used an old small lcd i had lying around. A bit awkward since it's not a native android tv app but it works!

 

[Beershaun]

Great! So there is a solution using audio player pro sideloaded with a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard for navigation. Thanks for the diligent work. Now if only would just get out of the way and do all that by default we could use the oem applications

 

[Beershaun]

According to this thread people are able to get bit perfect 24bit audio out of the fire stick using the Amazon Music app and paying for their hi res tier. I don't use Amazon music so I can't verify. I am not able to the same with Tidal mqa files so this may only work with the Amazon music app. (It's good to be part of the family I guess).

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...4500-no-24-bit-input.18983/page-2#post-639671

 

[Bamyasi]

According to this thread people are able to get bit perfect 24bit audio out of the fire stick using the Amazon Music app and paying for their hi res tier. I don't use Amazon music so I can't verify. I am not able to the same with Tidal mqa files so this may only work with the Amazon music app. (It's good to be part of the family I guess).

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...4500-no-24-bit-input.18983/page-2#post-639671

Firestick 4K playback is still not bitperfect since everything gets resampled at 192 kHz fixed rate. It may happen to be bitperfect purely accidentally when original track bitrate is 192 kHz but I doubt it. Anyway, there is only a tiny fraction of 192 kHz Ultra HD content on Amazon Music.

 

[Bamyasi]

The LGV10 w USB Audio Player Pro and dragontail worked just fine to send Tidal, Plex, etc. to my E30 DAC.

Are you sure? My understanding is that UAPP only works for local files playback and for streaming services integrated with the app (e.g. TIDAL). Plex Media Server is not integrated, so how did you manage to run it in bitperfect mode?
P.S. Unless you are using UAPP as a UPnP renderer while streaming from some other device?

 

[Beershaun]

Are you sure? My understanding is that UAPP only works for local files playback and for streaming services integrated with the app (e.g. TIDAL). Plex Media Server is not integrated, so how did you manage to run it in bitperfect mode?
P.S. Unless you are using UAPP as a UPnP renderer while streaming from some other device?

Your understanding is correct. I used UAPP as. Upnp renderer and Bubble upnp on my second device as a remote control. My UAPP device was a recognized rendering endpoint that I could play to.

 

[Sal1950]

Don't support the MQA assault on the delivery of real unmolested master tape sound.
Listen to what the production team recorded and not what MQA makes it sound like.
We don't need no stinkin MQA.