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Looking for science-based instructions on setting up audio systems

Buddelpudding

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Hi,

general consensus seems to be that not only speakers and electronics are important for good sound, but also the way you set them up in your room (and the room itself) plays a very important role if you want very good results.

So I am trying to increase my knowledge regarding these topics (I might be forgetting some important ones):
  • Speaker placement
  • Room treatment
  • Speaker measurements
  • EQ
On all of these topics there is a lot of common knowledge floating around on this forum. But to me it sometimes seems quite hard to find and distinguish information that is science-based and presented in a structured, beginner-friendly way that I can work with.

So my question is, do you know of any such guides on this forum or elsewhere, that people should follow once they have all the parts of their system together? Maybe we can create a list of valuable sources in this thread.

Kind regards
 

Killingbeans

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Wes

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if you read Toole's summary paper, you will not pay too much attention to side wall reflections
-
Toole, F. E. 2006. Loudspeakers and Rooms for Sound Reproduction—A Scientific Review J. Audio Eng. Soc., Vol. 54, No. 6 June

for bass you just want to address the room nodes, which are of course highly room specific - I guess the science on this is in a Soph. physics text, but the applied acoustics can be found in any number of places, incl. the Audio Handbook
-
Alton, Master Handbook of Acoustics

then, there's always back ground reading like Cognitive Psychology, 2014, Ulrich Neisser

and...

http://www.whyyouhearwhatyouhear.com/subpages/chapter24.html

http://acousticslab.org/psychoacoustics/PMFiles/Module06.htm

https://books.google.com/books?id=IOV4AgAAQBAJ&pg=PA39&lpg=PA39&dq=identify ing+instruments+attack+removed&source=bl&ots=zsBX0 571K8&sig=LDjBxKerYWWQ-XJgo0ffJL68w9A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBmoVChMIgZO M2L7SyAIVwx0-Ch2CNgLK#v=onepage&q=identifying%20instruments%20a ttack%20removed&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=z5XxBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=identify ing+instruments+attack+removed&source=bl&ots=zBNTE iis8K&sig=3_01SvE--JQRhtt6JVAkGv19Dvc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CFQQ6AEwCWoVChM IgZOM2L7SyAIVwx0-Ch2CNgLK#v=onepage&q=identifying%20instruments%20a ttack%20removed&f=false





http://www.researchgate.net/publication/243766686_Synthesis_of_Wind-Instrument_Tones





https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&cad=rja&u act=8&ved=0CDIQFjAIahUKEwjL4MSQouXIAhXH2T4KHZwNDdo &url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.physics.byu.edu%2Fdownload%2 Fpublication%2F2478&usg=AFQjCNGghlBjK83BSyasIBhx51 zps67bcQ&sig2=ahAUlnohxSiYKmRpYtLtDg


https://books.google.com/books?id=ZlnvBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA227&lpg=PA227&dq=strong +clark+1967+spectrum+envelope&source=bl&ots=Gzkvuk eYRh&sig=S4ANJaBCxMROWMux8ZcErPwt81k&hl=en&sa=X&ve d=0CBwQ6AEwADgKahUKEwiPxLurouXIAhUKWz4KHaQZC5s#v=o nepage&q=strong%20clark%201967%20spectrum%20envelo pe&f=false





^


http://articles.ircam.fr/textes/Wessel78a/


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja& uact=8&ved=0CBwQFjAAOApqFQoTCLPV4oKj5cgCFYhwPgod_1 8ICg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fiwk.mdw.ac.at%2Flit_db_iwk%2 Fdownload.php%3Fid%3D15026&usg=AFQjCNEPt9eAPfvW-aLi-kbPWOlnYKo71Q&sig2=YhJuIkGJW3_QZGvxg550qA&bvm=bv.1 06130839,d.cWw


http://www.zainea.com/instrumentaltimbre.htm


https://www.google.com/search?q=audio%20aural%20perception%20primitives#q =echoic+memory+primitives


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echoic_memory





http://www.academia.edu/3700748/Echoic_Memory_In_Primitive_Auditory_Selective_Atte ntion


http://study.com/academy/lesson/echoic-memory-definition-lesson-quiz.html


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-1770.1988.tb00409.x/abstract
 

oivavoi

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My general approach is to get a room where acoustics are pleasant for conversation. That broadly means for me - like @Senior NEET Engineer said - to make generous use of thick rugs, bookcases, plants, curtains, and furniture-stuff in general (and hanging non-reflective stuff on the walls. Paintings without glass work). The most important thing acoustics-wise is to avoid flutter echo in the high frequencies, which those things suppress reasonably well.

Beyond that it's really about having good speakers with good dispersion characteristics, and placing them well. If you can place the speakers at least 1 m away from sidewalls, and can listen in reasonable proximity (1 to 2.5 m from the speakers), it will sound good. If you have lots of flutter echo and you listen far away from the speakers, it will sound bad, particularly if the speakers have uneven dispersion (my personal experience is that one get away with bad dispersion or a bad room if one listens very close to the speakers and places them away from room boundaries, as long as the direct sound on-axis is good).

Note that this is not uncontroversial. There are people who advocate that room treatments should work equally well on all frequencies, or who claim that side reflections should be suppressed etc. That is not my experience, though. I've listened in some rooms with lots of broadband absorption, and if often sounds dead and boring to me. Conversely I've also listened in bare and empty rooms with lots of flutter echo, and it also sounds bad to me. The rooms I like the most are somewhere in the middle between these two extremes - typically living rooms which are generously furnished and where there are lots of rugs and curtains.

My experience here is is broadly in line with several scientific studies (such as Bech 1994, and the more general summaries in Toole's book). People generally like reflections, it seems, as long as it's relatively timbrally correct. But there may also be genuine differences of preference here. One may learn to like one thing or the other.

In general we seem to be more sensitive to reflections and echos in some frequency ranges than in others, according to Bech 1994, and some other researchers. High-frequency flutter echo seems to be particularly bothersome. So I try to have a room where sound in a broad sense feels pleasant over time - be it conversations, music over loudspeakers or with live instruments. To get such a room may include using room treatment products, or it may not. Given that most loudspeakers have a more even horizontal than vertical dispersion, it often makes most sense to "treat" ceiling reflections for example. The problem is that building such room treatments takes time and money, and afterwards it is difficult to do A/B comparisons. It's good advice to visit different kind of listening rooms first, and get a sense of what one likes.

I've yet to listen in rooms with generous use of professional diffusion products. If I was to make use of room treatments myself, I would probably go the route of diffusion rather than absorption.
 
Last edited:

Hipper

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Hi,

general consensus seems to be that not only speakers and electronics are important for good sound, but also the way you set them up in your room (and the room itself) plays a very important role if you want very good results.

So I am trying to increase my knowledge regarding these topics (I might be forgetting some important ones):
  • Speaker placement
  • Room treatment
  • Speaker measurements
  • EQ
On all of these topics there is a lot of common knowledge floating around on this forum. But to me it sometimes seems quite hard to find and distinguish information that is science-based and presented in a structured, beginner-friendly way that I can work with.

So my question is, do you know of any such guides on this forum or elsewhere, that people should follow once they have all the parts of their system together? Maybe we can create a list of valuable sources in this thread.

Kind regards

I would say:
  • Ambient sound
  • Speaker placement
  • Room treatment
  • Speaker measurements
  • EQ
This is what I did - see post 60:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../share-your-in-room-measurements.13540/page-3

I used advice from these sources:

http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/monitoring.htm

https://gikacoustics.co.uk/

http://realtraps.com/

I also read Toole's book, Sound Reproduction Third Edition.

On here, this forum may have some answers:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-acoustics-and-general-speaker-discussions.9/

There is science but from what I can see it is mostly the science of consensus - basically what most people like. Side wall reflections are a good example. I don't like them and have taken steps to reduce them. Other, even most other, listeners prefer them.

The main thing most agree on is that room issues in the bass region need to be addressed (and even here some insist we can hear through this to find the music). If we agree this then the solutions are as I did - bass traps and EQ/DSP - or DSP alone, or using subs.

It is your room but it is also your choice of speakers and/or subs. Some speaker types behave differently then others.

I'm not aware of one good source that tells you all you want, which is perhaps not surprising as there seem to be a number of different views. It is not an exact science.
 

Snarfie

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I guess their is a difference between EQ an room correction (RC). When i use RC i have a flatline/frequency respons (as possible). From that point on i can use a specific target curve(s) which is EQing to get my preferred sound.

I would suggest in importancy:

1 room acoustics/correction
2 speaker placement
3 speakers
4 other gear
 
Last edited:
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Buddelpudding

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Thanks for all the interesting contributions. I did not have time to go through all of them yet, though, but I'm sure this will help others as well.
 

pozz

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johnp98

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Yes I am also very interested in following this thread.

I am also specifically looking for any objective way to position the main speakers to achieve the best soundstage.
 
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