Looking for recommendation for AV receiver and a set of speakers

[Vahidhm]

Please let me know if this post should be on other thread/s

I am an absolute newbie in Audio world but really like to research thoroughly before buying an equipment and starting a new hobby.
Generally, I am looking for recommendation to buy an AV receiver and a set of speakers.
The usage would be a mix of 70% music and 25% movies and 5% video games. Therefore, I am thinking about starting with a 2.1 or 3.1 system and expand to 5.1.2/5.2.2 in future

The main listening area would be a medium size room (Apt now but will be a house with similar or larger living area) with the floorplan and measurements in the picture



The budget for start is around $2500 with like 10-15% tolerance

• The current TV is a Sharp 50 inch 4k TV with Arc (no eArc) will be changed to a bigger and more up to date in future
• Music would be mostly from apps and online streaming
• gaming is through PS$

Here are the options I have considered and been told by others so far:

Bookshelf Speakers :

1. - KEF Q350 [I know Amir's did not like them but they seem very good overall performer with sub and I really like them aesthetically]
2. - Elac - Debut Reference DBR62 [I wish they look better or just all black, I really don't like that two tone thing]
3. - JBL Stage A130 [They might need lots of EQ]

Subwoofer:

1. SVS PB 1000 Pro
2. SVS SB 1000 Pro
3. Rythmik L12
4. Rythmik LV 12
5. VTF-2 MK5
6. RSL 10S

As you can see I still could not made my mind about sealed or ported. The more I read the more I get confused
I can not fit two subwoofers in this room now so the target is one subwoofer
I am leaning more toward Rythmik L12

AV receiver:
This is the area I have not read anything yet.
these two were recommended to me:

1. Denon AVRX 1600 H
2. Denon AVRX 2700 H

I have no idea about these yet

Center Speaker:
I am not sure If I need this right now or the budget let me buy one or I would buy them when I added the surround speakers / upward firing atmos things and depend on the bookshelf speakers, I would probably get the same series center speaker, right?

Surround Speaker:
I am not sure If I need this right now or the budget let me buy them or I would buy them when I added the surround speakers / upward firing atmos things and depend on the bookshelf speakers, I would buy the same bookshelf speakers for the rear? or something smaller? no idea about these

Atmos Speakers:
I am not sure If I need this right now or the budget let me buy them or I would buy them when I added the Center and surround speakers. Also I still don't know if the upward firing would work or is the better option compared to the actual ceiling speakers. Depend on the bookshelf speakers, I would probably get the same brand speaker then. right?
Other Misc.
I think I would need speaker cables and a good HDMI cable? Any brand or link or options?

As I said, I am a true noob here and I may not even know the basics. I would appreciate all comments, suggestions and educational links or reviews. Also, please let me know if I missed something or misunderstood any of these elements/equipment

Thanks!

 

[JeffS7444]

I am looking for recommendation to buy an AV receiver and a set of speakers.
The usage would be a mix of 70% music and 25% movies and 5% video games. Therefore, I am thinking about starting with a 2.1 or 3.1 system and expand to 5.1.2/5.2.2 in future

3.1 channels would be a good starting point: Music will mostly use the L, R and sub, while movies rely heavily on the center channel for dialog.

In a perfect world, you might use the same sort of speakers all around, but the Audyssey room correction built into Denon and Marantz receivers does a pretty decent job of accommodating a hodgepodge of hardware, and if corners need to be cut, the surround and height speakers are a pretty good place to do it IMO. You might find a number of small speakers suitable for use as height and surround speakers at a thrift store, in fact.

What's your source for movies: You mention Dolby Atmos, but Playstation 4 does not support that. OTOH, Apple TV 4K does support Atmos, and Amazon, Netflix and Apple TV+ programming take advantage of it, as do 4K UHD disks, if you've configured your player correctly.

Wires: Monoprice is a good place to start. Don't need to spend a lot of money to get good quality here.

 

[Vahidhm]

3.1 channels would be a good starting point: Music will mostly use the L, R and sub, while movies rely heavily on the center channel for dialog.

In a perfect world, you might use the same sort of speakers all around, but the Audyssey room correction built into Denon and Marantz receivers does a pretty decent job of accommodating a hodgepodge of hardware, and if corners need to be cut, the surround and height speakers are a pretty good place to do it IMO. You might find a number of small speakers suitable for use as height and surround speakers at a thrift store, in fact.

What's your source for movies: You mention Dolby Atmos, but Playstation 4 does not support that. OTOH, Apple TV 4K does support Atmos, and Amazon, Netflix and Apple TV+ programming take advantage of it, as do 4K UHD disks, if you've configured your player correctly.

Wires: Monoprice is a good place to start. Don't need to spend a lot of money to get good quality here.

Thank you for your comments
For movies, I am using a Roku Ultra and stream through Netflix, Amazon video, Hulu, HBO Max but I don't know if Dolby atmos or DTSx is supported.

 

[sweetchaos]

AV receiver:
This is the area I have not read anything yet.
these two were recommended to me:

1. Denon AVRX 1600 H
2. Denon AVRX 2700 H

I have no idea about these yet

The model I recommend if you can afford it, is the Denon X3500H or X3600H or X3700H, which have Audyssey MultEQ XT32. This is state of the art digital room correction, which is way better than Audyssey MultEQ XT, that all lower models have (models like X1500H, X1600H, X2500H, X2600H, X2700H, etc). All models above this (ex. X4400H, X4500H, X4700H and so on) have this too, but cost higher, with the benefit of more channel processing.

I would strongly encourage you to watch Audioholics step-by-step process of how to set up your Denon properly:

Subwoofer:

1. SVS PB 1000 Pro
2. SVS SB 1000 Pro
3. Rythmik L12
4. Rythmik LV 12
5. VTF-2 MK5
6. RSL 10S

As you can see I still could not made my mind about sealed or ported. The more I read the more I get confused
I can not fit two subwoofers in this room now so the target is one subwoofer
I am leaning more toward Rythmik L12

Based on your room dimensions, if I assume a 9ft ceilings, your living room, which opens to dining area and to kitchen (with all doors/closets closed), seems to be just above 3000ft^3, which is classified as 'Large'. Which means you'll need a decent amount of SPL to hit reference level of playback.

I've created a 'subwoofer comparison' spreadsheet to help people find the best subwoofer for their needs.
From your options, I would consider only SVS, Rythmik, or HSU.
RSL is a weak performer relative to SVS, and HSU sub is great, but seems outdated by today's standards...for an example, it doesnt even have a variable phase adjustment (only 0 deg or 180 deg). Not that HSU is a weak performing sub, far from it, but that SVS subs with their DSP and mobile app control seems like a winner in my eyes, if you were buying a subwoofer and didn't want to mess with manual adjustments on the back of subwoofer, where SVS can do everything from the app.

I would strongly encourage you to consider dual subwoofers. To learn more about the benefits of dual subs, here's 2 more Audioholics videos:

 

[sweetchaos]

Are you in the states?
I would consider Accessories4Less, which is refurbished/recertified AVRs.

AVR-X3600H is only US$900
AVR-X3700H is only US$1000

I wish we had these kind of prices here in Canada...sigh...oh well.

 

[Vahidhm]

The model I recommend if you can afford it, is the Denon X3500H or X3600H or X3700H, which have Audyssey MultEQ XT32. This is state of the art digital room correction, which is way better than Audyssey MultEQ XT, that all lower models have (models like X1500H, X1600H, X2500H, X2600H, X2700H, etc). All models above this (ex. X4400H, X4500H, X4700H and so on) have this too, but cost higher, with the benefit of more channel processing.

I would strongly encourage you to watch Audioholics step-by-step process of how to set up your Denon properly:

Based on your room dimensions, if I assume a 9ft ceilings, your living room, which opens to dining area and to kitchen (with all doors/closets closed), seems to be just above 3000ft^3, which is classified as 'Large'. Which means you'll need a decent amount of SPL to hit reference level of playback.

I've created a 'subwoofer comparison' spreadsheet to help people find the best subwoofer for their needs.
From your options, I would consider only SVS, Rythmik, or HSU.
RSL is a weak performer relative to SVS, and HSU sub is great, but seems outdated by today's standards...for an example, it doesnt even have a variable phase adjustment (only 0 deg or 180 deg). Not that HSU is a weak performing sub, far from it, but that SVS subs with their DSP and mobile app control seems like a winner in my eyes, if you were buying a subwoofer and didn't want to mess with manual adjustments on the back of subwoofer, where SVS can do everything from the app.

I would strongly encourage you to consider dual subwoofers. To learn more about the benefits of dual subs, here's 2 more Audioholics videos:

Thank you so much for your detailed comments and great subwoofer list.
I truly appreciate your help and really learned from your informative posts and comments in this forum on other threads.

For the room size you are right, it is around 3000 cubic feet and on the border of medium to Large size. Because the whole area won't be the listening area also to keep the neighbors around me happy I was hoping that something in the class of medium size room subs work for me.

In the topic of one sub and two subs, I know there are many benefits of having two subs, but my budget and the room configuration does not let me do it now. I am going to consider it as my future upgrade option to buy another sub.

In terms of brands and models, I like SVS subs very much specially because of the app. The only question is SVS SB-1000 pro my best option or SVS PB-1000 pro or do I need to look at their 2000 series ?

 

[Vahidhm]

Are you in the states?
I would consider Accessories4Less, which is refurbished/recertified AVRs.

AVR-X3600H is only US$900
AVR-X3700H is only US$1000

I wish we had these kind of prices here in Canada...sigh...oh well.

I am going to research about these two AV receivers and as you recommend most likely going to pick one of those over my initial options.
Those in the links are all sold out by the way it is not that great here in the US

 

[sweetchaos]

In terms of brands and models, I like SVS subs very much specially because of the app. The only question is SVS SB-1000 pro my best option or SVS PB-1000 pro or do I need to look at their 2000 series ?

My general recommendation is to buy a ported subwoofer since you get more output/$, UNLESS space is an issue, in which case go with sealed.

An interesting example of how ported subs are outselling sealed subs is that Monoprice used to make their Monolith subwoofers in 2 configurations, ported and sealed. After a while, they simply discontinued the sealed versions. And if you look at my spreadsheet, you'll see how close the 2 models were (if you just seal the ported sub with port plugs vs the sealed sub). Anyway, just thought you should know.

I'm very excited to see the new SVS 1000 pro CEA-2010-A measurements, hopefully *sooner than later*.

 

[deprogrammed]

Please let me know if this post should be on other thread/s

I am an absolute newbie in Audio world but really like to research thoroughly before buying an equipment and starting a new hobby.
Generally, I am looking for recommendation to buy an AV receiver and a set of speakers.
The usage would be a mix of 70% music and 25% movies and 5% video games. Therefore, I am thinking about starting with a 2.1 or 3.1 system and expand to 5.1.2/5.2.2 in future

The main listening area would be a medium size room (Apt now but will be a house with similar or larger living area) with the floorplan and measurements in the picture

View attachment 123422View attachment 123423

The budget for start is around $2500 with like 10-15% tolerance

• The current TV is a Sharp 50 inch 4k TV with Arc (no eArc) will be changed to a bigger and more up to date in future
• Music would be mostly from apps and online streaming
• gaming is through PS$

Here are the options I have considered and been told by others so far:

Bookshelf Speakers :

1. - KEF Q350 [I know Amir's did not like them but they seem very good overall performer with sub and I really like them aesthetically]
2. - Elac - Debut Reference DBR62 [I wish they look better or just all black, I really don't like that two tone thing]
3. - JBL Stage A130 [They might need lots of EQ]

Subwoofer:

1. SVS PB 1000 Pro
2. SVS SB 1000 Pro
3. Rythmik L12
4. Rythmik LV 12
5. VTF-2 MK5
6. RSL 10S

As you can see I still could not made my mind about sealed or ported. The more I read the more I get confused
I can not fit two subwoofers in this room now so the target is one subwoofer
I am leaning more toward Rythmik L12

AV receiver:
This is the area I have not read anything yet.
these two were recommended to me:

1. Denon AVRX 1600 H
2. Denon AVRX 2700 H

I have no idea about these yet

Center Speaker:
I am not sure If I need this right now or the budget let me buy one or I would buy them when I added the surround speakers / upward firing atmos things and depend on the bookshelf speakers, I would probably get the same series center speaker, right?

Surround Speaker:
I am not sure If I need this right now or the budget let me buy them or I would buy them when I added the surround speakers / upward firing atmos things and depend on the bookshelf speakers, I would buy the same bookshelf speakers for the rear? or something smaller? no idea about these

Atmos Speakers:
I am not sure If I need this right now or the budget let me buy them or I would buy them when I added the Center and surround speakers. Also I still don't know if the upward firing would work or is the better option compared to the actual ceiling speakers. Depend on the bookshelf speakers, I would probably get the same brand speaker then. right?
Other Misc.
I think I would need speaker cables and a good HDMI cable? Any brand or link or options?

As I said, I am a true noob here and I may not even know the basics. I would appreciate all comments, suggestions and educational links or reviews. Also, please let me know if I missed something or misunderstood any of these elements/equipment

Thanks!

Also keep an eye on the SVS outlet section. Maybe able to go up a model.

 

[Vahidhm]

Are you in the states?
I would consider Accessories4Less, which is refurbished/recertified AVRs.

AVR-X3600H is only US$900
AVR-X3700H is only US$1000

I wish we had these kind of prices here in Canada...sigh...oh well.

I have looked at some of the receivers and there are some numbers that I don't seem to understand well. Mostly the Wattage per channel and the impedance. I have a few questions in this regard

Denon AVR-X3700:

105 W at 8 Ohms / 20 Hz to 20 kHz / 0.008% THD
135 W at 6 Ohms / 1 kHz / 0.7% THD

Speakers Spec:

KEF Q350: 15-120W & 8 Ohm
Elac BR62: 120W & 6 Ohm

(Still in doubt to decide between these two speakers)

Question 1: if the receiver can only provide up to 105W (I assume this is pretty good compared to my initial recommended X2700 with 95W and 8 Ohm) it is still lower than 120W that the speaker need/can handle/like to have?
In other word, what is the best wattage for the speakers to work as they should and shine and what is the lowest that they start to starve ?

Question 2: how is the Marantz AVRs compared to Denon. Seems they are basically the same thing. is Marantz SR5015 something similar to X3700? 7.1 channel would be enough for me. Is there any major differences between these two?

Question 3: those Slim receivers look like a newbies dream , what is going on with them? Something like: Marantz NR1711

Thank you in advance

 

[sweetchaos]

KEF Q350: 15-120W & 8 Ohm
Elac BR62: 120W & 6 Ohm

(Still in doubt to decide between these two speakers)

My pick (which coincides with Amir's reviews) is the Elac DBR62, over the questionable performer Kef Q350.
Elac DBR62 has measured sensitivity of 85.7db, which is average (85.8db was actual average from 81 speakers, from mzkm's spreadsheet).
Meaning, they aren't easy or difficult to drive, so an AVR like the X3600 or X3700 should be good enough.
Also, since it has -6db is at 44hz, which should tell you that they will need a subwoofer, since it's not a full-range speaker.

Q1: I don't really care about the speaker's rated power handling. I care about the amplifier performance, since the speaker will simply draw the necessary power from the amplifier as needed. If you don't have enough power in your amplifier, and you're going to keep increasing the volume, the speaker will start to clip (which is not what you want). In other words, having more power in your amplifier than you need is not a bad thing. A bad thing is putting a weak-performing amplifier and trying to crank the volume of SPL until your speaker clips.

Denon AVR-X3600H's advertised specs show:
- 105W per Channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.08%, 2 ch)
Denon AVR-X3600H's actual performance was:
- 167 watt@86db SINAD @ 4ohm (2-ch driven)
- 108 watt@90db SINAD @ 8ohm (2-ch driven)

Denon AVR-X3700H's advertised specs show:
- 105W per Channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.08%, 2 ch)
Denon AVR-X3700H's actual performance was:
- 168 watt@83db SINAD @ 4ohm (2-ch driven)
- 114 watt@96db SINAD @ 8ohm (2-ch driven)

Which tells you that Denon's advertised specs are pretty accurate.

By the way, a big difference between X3600 and X3700 is that X3700 has a "pre-amplifier" mode, which means you can disconnect the front LR amplifier from the Denon X3700 and hook up an external stereo amplifier to your Denon, thereby increasing your overall performance. Since LR are the 2 speakers where most of the power is used for, since most of the movie effects come from those 2 channels. The denon X3700 has 9 channel amp, so in that case, you're only using 7 of it's channels, and the other 2 are drawn from your external stereo amplifier.

Q2: Marantz and Denon are under the same company, but have different design methodologies.
I believe Marantz have a "Audiophile" guy who approves all of their products.
So they don't care about having a transparent sound signature, since they care about a Marantz house-sound.
I read somewhere that this Marantz sound is adding distortion which is different from Denon's transparent sound.

Here's the units that Amir reviewed, and none of them are recommended:

I'm not a fan of this design philosophy. But I read online that people like Marantz sound, so...*shrug*.

Q3: Slim receivers are sacrificing quality, assuming they still have the same # of amplifiers inside as a larger receivers. You'll typically get a reduced amplifier power and more distortion with a slim receiver. I'm not a fan of them. Maybe if you really lack the space for a regular sized amplifier, then you would consider these? But seeing how cheap Hypex Ncore amplifiers are (with the same price as these slim receivers but without the DAC), and Hypex Ncore amplifiers are much better rated (more power, less distortion). So I think the market for these is for people who don't know of better alternatives or are really on a budget, where a weak performing amplifier is secondary, and they just want an all-in-one unit.

The ultimate setup (IMO) is to get a Denon X3600 or higher, then save up $ for a Hypex Ncore stereo amplifier for your LR speakers. The only Hypex amp builder on my list is Buckeye Amps.
You can get:
2 channel NC502MP (2x500w @ 4ohm), XLR inputs (Neutrik), Mogami wiring, 12v trigger, Power LED (Blue) = $649 shipped
2 channel NC252MP (2x250w @ 4ohm), XLR inputs (Neutrik), Mogami wiring, 12v trigger, Power LED (Blue) = $499 shipped
I don't know how he's making money with these prices, but I love it.

 

[Vahidhm]

My pick (which coincides with Amir's reviews) is the Elac DBR62, over the questionable performer Kef Q350.
Elac DBR62 has measured sensitivity of 85.7db, which is average (85.8db was actual average from 81 speakers, from mzkm's spreadsheet).
Meaning, they aren't easy or difficult to drive, so an AVR like the X3600 or X3700 should be good enough.
Also, since it has -6db is at 44hz, which should tell you that they will need a subwoofer, since it's not a full-range speaker.

Q1: I don't really care about the speaker's rated power handling. I care about the amplifier performance, since the speaker will simply draw the necessary power from the amplifier as needed. If you don't have enough power in your amplifier, and you're going to keep increasing the volume, the speaker will start to clip (which is not what you want). In other words, having more power in your amplifier than you need is not a bad thing. A bad thing is putting a weak-performing amplifier and trying to crank the volume of SPL until your speaker clips.

Denon AVR-X3600H's advertised specs show:
- 105W per Channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.08%, 2 ch)
Denon AVR-X3600H's actual performance was:
- 167 watt@86db SINAD @ 4ohm (2-ch driven)
- 108 watt@90db SINAD @ 8ohm (2-ch driven)

Denon AVR-X3700H's advertised specs show:
- 105W per Channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.08%, 2 ch)
Denon AVR-X3700H's actual performance was:
- 168 watt@83db SINAD @ 4ohm (2-ch driven)
- 114 watt@96db SINAD @ 8ohm (2-ch driven)

Which tells you that Denon's advertised specs are pretty accurate.

By the way, a big difference between X3600 and X3700 is that X3700 has a "pre-amplifier" mode, which means you can disconnect the front LR amplifier from the Denon X3700 and hook up an external stereo amplifier to your Denon, thereby increasing your overall performance. Since LR are the 2 speakers where most of the power is used for, since most of the movie effects come from those 2 channels. The denon X3700 has 9 channel amp, so in that case, you're only using 7 of it's channels, and the other 2 are drawn from your external stereo amplifier.

Q2: Marantz and Denon are under the same company, but have different design methodologies.
I believe Marantz have a "Audiophile" guy who approves all of their products.
So they don't care about having a transparent sound signature, since they care about a Marantz house-sound.
I read somewhere that this Marantz sound is adding distortion which is different from Denon's transparent sound.

Here's the units that Amir reviewed, and none of them are recommended:View attachment 123709
I'm not a fan of this design philosophy. But I read online that people like Marantz sound, so...*shrug*.

Q3: Slim receivers are sacrificing quality, assuming they still have the same # of amplifiers inside as a larger receivers. You'll typically get a reduced amplifier power and more distortion with a slim receiver. I'm not a fan of them. Maybe if you really lack the space for a regular sized amplifier, then you would consider these? But seeing how cheap Hypex Ncore amplifiers are (with the same price as these slim receivers but without the DAC), and Hypex Ncore amplifiers are much better rated (more power, less distortion). So I think the market for these is for people who don't know of better alternatives or are really on a budget, where a weak performing amplifier is secondary, and they just want an all-in-one unit.

The ultimate setup (IMO) is to get a Denon X3600 or higher, then save up $ for a Hypex Ncore stereo amplifier for your LR speakers. The only Hypex amp builder on my list is Buckeye Amps.
You can get:
2 channel NC502MP (2x500w @ 4ohm), XLR inputs (Neutrik), Mogami wiring, 12v trigger, Power LED (Blue) = $649 shipped
2 channel NC252MP (2x250w @ 4ohm), XLR inputs (Neutrik), Mogami wiring, 12v trigger, Power LED (Blue) = $499 shipped
I don't know how he's making money with these prices, but I love it.

Thank you so much for your comment. Lots of info and I am trying to read and understand more about it

 

[Vahidhm]

Well, I finally went to a best buy Magnolia center and tried to listen to some of these speakers/ AVR systems. And the results were quite interesting.
They had very limited number of speakers and AVRs but I listened to almost all of them (there were no one there to "help me" so I spent about an hour playing with the equipment and tested so many configurations).

With Denon AVRs (Tested X-3700h and or X-1600h) and B&W bookshelf speakers (606 or607) the results was not good to me. it was just OK or Meh. nothing impressing at all. With the same AVR + B&W 700 series, it was acceptable I can say. (With that price range I was expecting way better than that though) Maybe that is the best I can get with an AVR? I don't know. With the same AVR + KEF Q350 the sound was acceptable in many aspects for my taste (It was a bit warmer, wider, deeper pretty good bass but slightly dim in vocals, I wish it was a tad brighter in mid and high ranges). For it's price compared to B&W 700s, it was a better option to me. However, still not impressive. Martin logan speakers also did not make a huge difference in the overall results.
However, I did like the SVS 2000 Pro subwoofer. Impressive I can say.


On the movie side: I found out that I don't care about fully surround system or atmos stuff at all. A good 3.1 system is more than enough (2.1 would work with good speakers too). But defiantly need the subwoofer and a sealed one is good enough.

With all that said, I think the AVR is not the best option for me (Opinion?) because of weak performance in audio part and good performance in video side that will never be used. (Weak on audio and overkill on video) I may be wrong about the audio performance though

I tried to explore some alternative options to address my need and boy it is like an ocean with so many equipment and numbers. To my novice knowledge the best options were start with the easiest to set up and use so here are what I found and puzzeled together

1. NAD M10 (or Naim Unity Atom or etc) + a pair of bookshelf speakers + sub
Major Pros for me:
-All in one package. Supposedly good performance in audio (Should be much better than Denon X-3700H)?
-HDMI for TV (should be able to properly handle PS4 and Roku through TV ?)
-Great to use for streaming and using with app and wifi stuff
-Room correction (Unity atom does not have this)
Major cons for me:
- Expensive. really stretch the budget (Does not worth it?) and eats up the speaker budget
- Not the best audio option
-No option for a center speaker?

2. Mini DSP SHD + Power amp (Hypex NC525MP amp in cheapest brand) + a pair of bookshelf speakers + sub
Major Pros for me:
-Supposedly great performance in audio (Should be much much better than Denon X-3700H)? and much better than (NAD M10 or Unity atom,... ?
-Great to use for streaming and using with app and wifi stuff (Not sure about this part)
-Room correction
-Reasonable price (compared to NAD or Unity)
Major cons for me:
- Does not have HDMI. So I don't know how to properly handle TV and PS4 and Roku with this?
- Not the best audio option
-No option for a center speaker ?

3. Other audio processors + Streaming DAC ? + Amp+ a pair of bookshelf speakers + sub

This looks too much too complicated to me and I have no idea bout this at this time

I spent about 10 hours reading y articles, reviews and posts about DACs, integrated amps, amps with streaming, etc. and to my noob understanding, I tried to put the pieces together to create these options to beat the AVR+ Speakers option.

As Always I appreciate the comments