Looking for help finishing this setup

[Chromatischism]

2nd system in the living room for working out / lounging on the couch.

Not pictured is my NCore stereo amp which is upstairs in the theater and easy enough to share with this system if needed/desired.

So there will be audio bits coming from the laptop via HDMI. The source could be foobar2000, which I enjoy controlling with the app on my phone, an online service through a web browser, or other means. To complete the system I need the following:

• DAC
• Not sure I need a preamp; the laptop PC source has gain control
• Equalization for the room up to ~300 Hz for all sources and maybe EQ based on anechoic speaker measurements
• Bass management to keep my subwoofer options open

The easiest route is to get an AVR. But I'm picky and would only consider a Denon X3400H, X3500H, X3600H, X4300H, or X4400H. Audyssey XT32 the bass region with the app, turn on Dynamic EQ and call it a day. However it's nearly impossible to find them used right now so I want to investigate alternatives.

What else would you be looking at? I do have a UMIK-1 and REW. Thanks.

 

[MZKM]

Denon X3700 is $1000 refurb from A4L; not much off, but $200 is $200.

 

[Chromatischism]

Yeah, I just don't see myself spending that much in this case. Refurbished units of the models mentioned above run $600-900 which is more attractive but I'm still curious what I can do for less. Depending on the complexity of alternatives, of course.

 

[Chromatischism]

In addition to the NCore amp, I could lug the X4500H down from upstairs in the media room and switch Audyssey profiles every time I wanted to use them, but I fear I would use them less. Would save a lot of money though.

Otherwise, a DAC is easy enough to choose thanks to the great reviews here by Amir. The EQ is where it gets complicated, as well as bass management to keep subwoofer options open.

 

[BillG]

If you're going to be using Foobar, why not EQ at the source using it? There's also Equalizer APO with the @Peace gui for it assuming you'll be running Foobar on a Windows computer. That computer is also a very capable DSP if you choose to utilize it.

 

[Chromatischism]

Yeah I've thought about it, but it is more complex to set up, uses PEQ instead of FIR filters as far as I can tell, doesn't do Dynamic EQ based on volume level, doesn't allow me to set up a crossover to a potential sub, and can't work with WASAPI. If I can find a solution to those things I'd give it a try.

 

[Chromatischism]

For the time being I cannibalized the upstairs setup so I could give these a listen. Here is my X4500H + NCore NC252MP:

First order of business, speakers and seat are placed such that I'm not too far from them to minimize the prominence of room reflections. This room is lively. Then Audyssey to get new levels, distances, and correct for the room up to 350 Hz. Now this calibration is distinct from my S400's in the other room.

I didn't waste any time on "break-in" and right off the bat I played M83 - Oblivion (feat. Susanne Sundfør)

And goosebumps. That is how good these sound. Everything in the spectrum seems to be there without any obvious frequency response annoyances.

Now, as expected there is not tons of bass here. But with Dynamic EQ, there is just enough to fill things out and give a balanced sound, just not quite as bassy as I like. Drums have really good attack and everything seems to hold up to complex music. Vocals shine as they do on my S400's. These sound a little bit more energetic in the treble but I must refrain from comparing different speakers in a very different room.

I will go more in depth later. So far, so good.

 

[Chromatischism]

If only there were a way to make Zone 2 work. This AVR is normally in the room directly above, so I'm starting to get ideas about dropping wires down through the wall. Leaving both the AVR and amp upstairs, I would need to fish 2 12 awg speaker wires, an active HDMI, and an infrared repeater. I may add others just to future-proof it. Then I think I could do everything else I needed through apps.

But Audyssey? I wonder if extensions are permitted for the mic or if there is signal loss if you go too far. May have to bring the AVR down for the setup.

Anyone done anything like this before?

 

[Chromatischism]

After discovering how highly variable the listening location is, I'm getting decent bass from the DFR52's, just not where I was set up. I haven't done any measurements yet but they are forthcoming.

 

[Chromatischism]

I learned today regarding using Zone 2 from the same AVR and amp that Audyssey only applies to the Main Zone. However, that doesn't seem like an impediment because to switch systems I'd have to swap cables no matter what. In this case, the amp would remain connected to Front L/R but I would swap out the speaker banana plugs at the amplifier, then switch Audyssey profiles. Part of the profile is the speaker configuration so everything should be taken care of by leaving it as Main Zone. Would it be annoying swapping cables? Slightly. But I'd be looking at a few hundred in wall plates and cables (plus my labor) compared to up to $1k to buy duplicate electronics, so it's an interesting option. However only one of the speaker pairs could be used at a time.

If I could spend a similar amount as the wall plates + cables in a DAC + EQ solution and achieve the above goals, I would be amenable. It would save me from cutting open the walls and drilling through the studs. But I'm not sure there are any solutions out there for Dynamic EQ other than Audyssey, which uses superior FIR filters, works on all sources including inputs such as a Chromecast and the laptop via WASAPI, and can handle a crossover to a subwoofer.

I had considered a MiniDSP Dirac solution but I have to wonder where I'll draw the line in terms of the budget for this.

 

[detlev24]

This really is an appealing pair of floor-standing loudspeakers; congratulations!

I am just a bit surprised that they chose to crossover the two woofers at already 90 Hz (according to their 'spec sheet'). This "wastes" the woofers in case of high-pass filtering for subwoofer(s) integration - if one follows the philosophy for highest possible crossover frequency [<120 Hz]. In that case, the DBR62 might be more advantageous, as the 6.5" LF/MF driver would play until the next crossover of 2200 Hz; instead of just one remaining 5.1" driver on the DFR52.

If the DCR52's vertical dispersion would be as good as horizontally [most likely not the case], it might as well qualify for best choice in such a HPF scenario.

 

[Chromatischism]

Yeah, good points. They will probably stay as a 2.0 system.

 

[Chromatischism]

So I'm still working through this in my mind. After spending most of my time on my main setup, I'm ready to figure this one out.

I could live without Dynamic EQ if I can find a volume level that I use most of the time. Or maybe I make different presets. I'd rather not, but it's an idea.

That means I could loosen the requirements a little bit. So what DAC+Amp could I use that would hold EQ filters and accept a couple of HDMI inputs, AND cost less than a Denon AVR? Is there such a device?

 

[Chromatischism]

It must be only a matter of time before MiniDSP makes an integrated amp with HDMI since Sound United doesn't seem to care to add Audyssey XT32 to theirs. Give me an efficient Class D 2.1 channel integrated amp with HDMI and modern room correction or EQ slots. Why does this not exist?

This is one of the few I can find, and I have no need for video on this system.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...rements-of-essence-hdacc-ii-4k-hdmi-dac.7171/

Conclusions
If this were a pure DAC with the typical inputs, it would get a lot of scorn from me at its price range. But this is no typical DAC. Search for HDMI DAC and the first hits are from Essence and then some threads on our forum! It simply is hard if not impossible to find desktop class DACs with HDMI input. The alternative of getting an Audio/Video Receiver or Processor is a non-starter given their massive size, amount of power they use and often, difficulty of navigating their menus.

 

[Chromatischism]

I think the product I'm looking for doesn't exist – so loosening up on the HDMI inputs and changing the setup slightly, I could make do with a MiniDSP 2x4 HD and an amp. I am also considering changing the speakers to Linkwitz LXmini's, but we'll see.