Looking for forgiving speakers for an asymmetric, open-plan room

[Miimo44]

I'm pretty new to home theater and my space is unusual: the living room/HT area is part of an open floor plan, is asymmetric, and has a wall with windows on one side of the TV and open space/stairs on the other (schematic below).

I'm upgrading from 4.0 to 5.1.2 and have narrowed my front/surround speaker list to these four:

• KEF Q1 Meta
• ELAC Debut 3.0
• Emotiva Airmotiv XB2
• Paradigm Monitor SE

Key Question: Which of these will be most forgiving of a non-ideal, asymmetric room? Usage will be 95% movies/TV, 5% music.

Core details

• 9’ ceilings
• 9-10' distance from speakers
• AVR: Denon X1700H
• Budget: <$2,100
• Existing speakers: Klipsch R-1650-C (will use these as my height channels).

Quick note on this image: I made a mistake with the scale between the back of the couch and wall. Everything else is to scale.

 

[staticV3]

Hi @Miimo44! Welcome to ASR.

Forgiving in this context means tight and smooth directivity.

Here's how each of them compare:


Can't really beat the KEF's Coax driver here.

However, the Q1 is really deep and when used as Surround speakers distributed in the room, will eat into the available space.

Two truly excellent surround speakers that don't have this issue are the Arendal 1961 Bookshelf and Ascilab F6Bs: https://comparesizes.com/comparison...Ascilab-F6Bs-vs-KEF-Q1-Meta/17779648086689210

Both have fantastic directivity rivalling the KEF:


And they perform great everywhere else as well:

Arendal 1961 Bookshelf Speaker Review

Arendal 1961 Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

AsciLab F6Bs Speaker Review

This is a review, detailed measurements, EQ and listening test of AsciLab F6Bs bookshelf/surround speaker. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $575 [now $725 with shipping included] for a pair. This is an absolutely gorgeous design! It feels that way as well with a solid cabinet that...

www.audiosciencereview.com

However, they are a different price class.

 

[Miimo44]

Hi @Miimo44! Welcome to ASR.

Forgiving in this context means tight and smooth directivity.

Here's how each of them compare:
View attachment 530066View attachment 530067View attachment 530068View attachment 530069

Can't really beat the KEF's Coax driver here.

However, the Q1 is really deep and when used as Surround speakers distributed in the room, will eat into the available space.

Two truly excellent surround speakers that don't have this issue are the Arendal 1961 Bookshelf and Ascilab F6Bs: https://comparesizes.com/comparison...Ascilab-F6Bs-vs-KEF-Q1-Meta/17779648086689210

Both have fantastic directivity rivalling the KEF:
View attachment 530072View attachment 530073

And they perform great everywhere else as well:

Arendal 1961 Bookshelf Speaker Review

Arendal 1961 Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

AsciLab F6Bs Speaker Review

This is a review, detailed measurements, EQ and listening test of AsciLab F6Bs bookshelf/surround speaker. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $575 [now $725 with shipping included] for a pair. This is an absolutely gorgeous design! It feels that way as well with a solid cabinet that...

www.audiosciencereview.com

However, they are a different price class.

Thank you! This is fantastic guidance. I have a couple follow up comments/questions.

First off, I appreciate your suggestions on surround speakers. They are indeed more expensive, but if either the Ascilab F6Bs or Arendal 1961 Bookshelf is a better surround for this space, I can go to 5.1 this year and make one of those my 2027 upgrade to get to 5.1.2. Also, those Ascilabs are gorgeous.

My questions relate to surround speakers:

• I'd love to hear more about the Kef's eating into the available space. Can you tell me more about that? I'm not quite sure what that means. Similarly, what is it about the Ascilab and Arendal speakers that allows them to not eat into the space? Would I be better off with one of those as my front speakers?
• One concern I didn't raise in my initial post is the angle of the surround channels: because there isn't much room between the wall and the back of the couch, the surrounds will need to be at a fairly aggressive angle and the speakers will be quite close to listeners (<2-4ft). Would a wider soundstage be a benefit here? The reason I ask is because there are multiple seating positions on our large couch, and so my goal is to have the sound reach people equally well regardless of their spot.
• Regardless of soundstage width, do the Ascilab F6Bs or Arendal 1961 have an appropriate soundstage for this setup? (I assume yes since you recommended the latter two, but wanted to be sure I understood, especially in the context of my previous question.) What about the Kef Q1 Meta (regardless of eating into the space)?

One unrelated question: I researched tower speakers and it seems as though bookshelf speakers are better for my situation and needs. Even so, would I be better off with towers?

 

[staticV3]

I'd love to hear more about the Kef's eating into the available space. Can you tell me more about that? I'm not quite sure what that means.

The KEF's cabinet has a lot of depth compared to the Arendal and Ascilab (see the link I sent above).

Place four (or five) of them surrounding your listening position in what seems to be an already physically constrained space and you won't have much room left for yourself.

One concern I didn't raise in my initial post is the angle of the surround channels: because there isn't much room between the wall and the back of the couch, the surrounds will need to be at a fairly aggressive angle and the speakers will be quite close to listeners (<2-4ft). Would a wider soundstage be a benefit here? The reason I ask is because there are multiple seating positions on our large couch, and so my goal is to have the sound reach people equally well regardless of their spot.

Try to measure or calculate the angle from each speaker to the leftmost seating position and to the rightmost seating position.

Then you can cross-reference that with the directivity data and decide if it is sufficient.

Regardless of soundstage width, do the Ascilab F6Bs or Arendal 1961 have an appropriate soundstage for this setup?

I don't understand the question.

One unrelated question: I researched tower speakers and it seems as though bookshelf speakers are better for my situation and needs. Even so, would I be better off with towers?

Compared to bookshelves, towers increase sensitivity, low frequency extension, or headroom (or a combination of the three).

If you were going to buy speaker stands anyway (as opposed to wall-mounting or setting them on top of the TV console), then it often makes more sense to just buy towers, provided that you can find similarly well designed speakers at a cost similar to the bookshelf+speaker stand.

 

[Miimo44]

I appreciate the follow up! Here are some responses:

The KEF's cabinet has a lot of depth compared to the Arendal and Ascilab (see the link I sent above).

Place four (or five) of them surrounding your listening position in what seems to be an already physically constrained space and you won't have much room left for yourself.

Gotcha! Now I understand: you're referring to the actual physical space of the speakers themselves and not the way the sound presents itself. Thank you!

Regardless of physical space, considering that both the Ascilab F6Bs and Arendal 1961 Bookshelf speakers are sealed, would either one be a better option than the Kef for surrounds since the surrounds will be fairly close to walls?

I don't understand the question.

My apologies, my question was not worded well. Either way, you can ignore this: between your answer to another one of my questions (about measuring angles from listening positions) and charts from the Erin's Audio Corner links you provided, my question was answered (both the Arendal and Ascilab will work).

Thanks also for your thoughts on tower speakers, they help!

 

[staticV3]

Regardless of physical space, considering that both the Ascilab F6Bs and Arendal 1961 Bookshelf speakers are sealed, would either one be a better option than the Kef for surrounds since the surrounds will be fairly close to walls?

KEF are selling a wall-mount kit for the Q1 Meta: https://international.kef.com/products/b2-wall-bracket

That should give you an idea of how close you can put the port to a wall before you get issues (~3cm acc. to the mount's dimensions)

That being said, placing speakers close to a wall will boost their bass response, which in a surround speaker, would likely do more harm than good.

As such, I'd probably plug the KEF's port anyway, regardless of how close to a wall it's positioned.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

I'm pretty new to home theater and my space is unusual: the living room/HT area is part of an open floor plan, is asymmetric, and has a wall with windows on one side of the TV and open space/stairs on the other (schematic below).

I'm upgrading from 4.0 to 5.1.2 and have narrowed my front/surround speaker list to these four:

• KEF Q1 Meta
• ELAC Debut 3.0
• Emotiva Airmotiv XB2
• Paradigm Monitor SE

Key Question: Which of these will be most forgiving of a non-ideal, asymmetric room? Usage will be 95% movies/TV, 5% music.

Core details

• 9’ ceilings
• 9-10' distance from speakers
• AVR: Denon X1700H
• Budget: <$2,100
• Existing speakers: Klipsch R-1650-C (will use these as my height channels).

Quick note on this image: I made a mistake with the scale between the back of the couch and wall. Everything else is to scale.

View attachment 529973

Revel

 

[Miimo44]

Revel

I'd love to hear more about the Revel recommendation. They're well in excess of my budget, tho!

 

[Miimo44]

KEF are selling a wall-mount kit for the Q1 Meta: https://international.kef.com/products/b2-wall-bracket

That should give you an idea of how close you can put the port to a wall before you get issues (~3cm acc. to the mount's dimensions)

That being said, placing speakers close to a wall will boost their bass response, which in a surround speaker, would likely do more harm than good.

As such, I'd probably plug the KEF's port anyway, regardless of how close to a wall it's positioned.

This guidance is fantastic, thank you! In particular the note about plugging the port. I won't do that out of the gate, but it's good to know that that's a strategy I could use if need be.