Looking for desktop speakers with warm, non fatiguing sound

[Kryz]

Hi! I was reading the review for Wharfedale Diamond 220 because I read that they have a non fatiguing sound, but I read also that they are too big for near-field listening and also have humming/shuffing white noise.

Is there a better alternative? I have tinnitus and even normal treble irritates me. For reference, I know Bose and Sony headphones have crappy sound but the warm sound signature of Bose QC35 and XM3 are nice for my ears and long listening sessions. In the contrary, the very popular Airpods Pro are very harsh for me.

Is there high quality speakers good for close listening (no humming sound) and non fatiguing sound? bugdet is around $500-1000. Can be more if there are no good options in that price.

Thank you so much for the help!

 

[Prana Ferox]

The Diamond 220s are passive speakers, they can't create a hum or anything like that on their own. Are you referring to port noise? Also, they're 5" drivers, that's hardly out of line for nearfield.

"Non-fatiguing" usually just refers to a downward slope in high frequency response relative to bass/midrange. "Warmth" can be a lot of things. Have you thought about trying to accomplish those via EQ?

 

[Long Audio Beard]

if you like Wharfedale and are Ok with the size, I would highly recommend

Wharfedale Denton 85th Anniversary

or

Wharfedale Denton 80th Anniversary

Note these are "bookshelf" size speakers, and not really small ones, but they are very good and some are used as monitors in studios although that is not what they were necessarily designed for.

They perform very well near-field, are considered "non-fatiguing" and their midrange performance is excellent.

Otherwise, I would recommend some actual monitors from Tannoy Gold series. They are self-powered which may not be what you intended, but you should check them out because they are excellent performers for desktop use. They come in a few different sizes depending on your space and volume needs:

Tannoy Studio Monitor Gold

These are often overlooked by desktop users because they are marketed for the recording and musician industry. Connected directly to a computer or through a decent DAC and these are great choices.

 

[napilopez]

Hi! I was reading the review for Wharfedale Diamond 220 because I read that they have a non fatiguing sound, but I read also that they are too big for near-field listening and also have humming/shuffing white noise.

Is there a better alternative? I have tinnitus and even normal treble irritates me. For reference, I know Bose and Sony headphones have crappy sound but the warm sound signature of Bose QC35 and XM3 are nice for my ears and long listening sessions. In the contrary, the very popular Airpods Pro are very harsh for me.

Is there high quality speakers good for close listening (no humming sound) and non fatiguing sound? bugdet is around $500-1000. Can be more if there are no good options in that price.

Thank you so much for the help!

I'm not sure you're looking for is that much of a "warm" sound. Contrary to popular belief, the Bose QC35 actually has a rather neutral frequency response. It follows the research-backed Harman curve quite closely when noise cancelling is on. The AirPods Pro are pretty close to, but they lack bass, and that is likely what makes them sound harsh to you (a lack of bass often sounds like an excess of treble). I suspect that a neutral speaker, listened slightly off axis, or perhaps a speaker just slightly warm of neutral, should sound good to you.

The Wharfdales generally have a downward tilt in their in-room curve. However, if you are using them on a desk, the on-axis and listening window responses take on more priority, and these speakers have a severe peak in the treble that you could very well find irritating. Although theystill trend towards warm, so maybe just listening a bit off axis would help.

The Neumann KH80 are basically perfect. No noise, perfect frequency response, as good as it gets in a small speaker. If you listen to them off-axis or don't mind doing a little EQ, they will should sound 'warm.'

I would recommend the KEF LSX if you intend to use them on a desktop, maybe if you can find them used theyd fit your budget. They have a very neutral, but slightly warm sound due to a slightly laid back treble.

On the cheap end, the iLoud Micro Monitors ($300) are a touch on the warm side of neutral in my opinion, and $300, I am sensitive to hiss and find them to be good in this regard, but they do have a small amount that's audible if you like to listen loud. Otherwise, if you turn up your pc volume to the max and use the volume control on the back of the speakers, they should have no audible hiss.

For speakers I haven't heard:

I haven't heard the Genelec 8010A, but based on Amir's measurements, they should be nearly as good as the KH80, but perhaps a little warmer on axis (though the difference is likely minimal). Plus they're cheaper at $730.

The iLoud MTM($700), which Amir reviewed and liked as well, are quite neutral have a control on the back that lets you turn down the highs by 2 dB, which should definitely solve any issues with treble harshness.

Good luck!

 

[theyellowspecial]

No particular suggestions, but I can say, in my limited experience, speakers designed for nearfield/desktop sound better in nearfield/desktop than passive bookshelf speakers. My Swan D1080s sound better at the desk than either my JBL 530 or Focal Aria 906 speakers, for example.

 

[napilopez]

No particular suggestions, but I can say, in my limited experience, speakers designed for nearfield/desktop sound better in nearfield/desktop than passive bookshelf speakers. My Swan D1080s sound better at the desk than either my JBL 530 or Focal Aria 906 speakers, for example.

Yep, usually because of vertical directivity. In smaller non-coaxial speakers, vertical directivity will usually be better by default, whereas even larger nearfield speakers will take some vertical directivity into account, while farfield speakers often don't care lol.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

You did not say what your budget level is. [Edit: the OP did say their budget; I just missed it! Thanks @napilopez ]

For me, after trying a wide range of bookshelf speakers (driven by Emotiva mini-X a-100) including the Wharfedale Denton 80th, ELAC 2.0 B6.2, and KEF Q150, I opted for the jump up to the front-ported Neumann KH-120A speakers with their LS-65 speaker stand. These active speakers were way beyond my initial budget; but I have been super happy with them in my desktop near-field listening environment — way beyond the audio experience on the other (great) passive speakers for desktop environment.

The KH-120A has the advantage that they are specifically designed for 1m listening distance. I prefer the front-porting (since they are close to the wall) and the stand-mounted design over the Genelec (e.g., 8030)... but full disclosure, I never tested the Genelec line and many people speak very highly of them. Also, Genelec is moving more strongly towards their more expensive "The One" line; so cost was another factor for me.

 

[napilopez]

You did not say what your budget level is.

For me, after trying a wide range of bookshelf speakers (driven by Emotiva mini-X a-100) including the Wharfedale Denton 80th, ELAC 2.0 B6.2, and KEF Q150, I opted for the jump up to the front-ported Neumann KH-120A speakers with their LS-65 speaker stand. These active speakers were way beyond my initial budget; but I have been super happy with them in my desktop near-field listening environment — way beyond the audio experience on the other (great) passive speakers for desktop environment.

The KH-120A has the advantage that they are specifically designed for 1m listening distance. I prefer the front-porting (since they are close to the wall) and the stand-mounted design over the Genelec (e.g., 8030)... but full disclosure, I never tested the Genelec line and many people speak very highly of them. Also, Genelec is moving more strongly towards their more expensive "The One" line; so cost was another factor for me.

He did say 500-1000. I suppose he didn't specify currency though

 

[raindance]

Warm, non fatiguing speakers at an 8' listening distance don't stay that way in the extreme near field. I suspect you'll need eq if you're going to use passives that weren't designed for this use.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

He did say 500-1000. I suppose he didn't specify currency though

Doh! Read too quickly through the responses...

 

[SmCaudata]

My personal passive desktop speakers are Neat Iotas.
https://www.basilaudio.com/products/neat-iota/

They are voiced by ear (so, very unlikely to be flat measuring speakers) and I personally love the sound. They are great for nearfield and also will get quite loud without sounding stressed.
They are expensive, but I don't really know of any direct competitors.
As others have pointed out, there are some good powered options that may fit.

 

[Kachda]

I'm not sure you're looking for is that much of a "warm" sound. Contrary to popular belief, the Bose QC35 actually has a rather neutral frequency response. It follows the research-backed Harman curve quite closely when noise cancelling is on. The AirPods Pro are pretty close to, but they lack bass, and that is likely what makes them sound harsh to you (a lack of bass often sounds like an excess of treble). I suspect that a neutral speaker, listened slightly off axis, or perhaps a speaker just slightly warm of neutral, should sound good to you.

The Wharfdales generally have a downward tilt in their in-room curve. However, if you are using them on a desk, the on-axis and listening window responses take on more priority, and these speakers have a severe peak in the treble that you could very well find irritating. Although theystill trend towards warm, so maybe just listening a bit off axis would help.

The Neumann KH80 are basically perfect. No noise, perfect frequency response, as good as it gets in a small speaker. If you listen to them off-axis or don't mind doing a little EQ, they will should sound 'warm.'

I would recommend the KEF LSX if you intend to use them on a desktop, maybe if you can find them used theyd fit your budget. They have a very neutral, but slightly warm sound due to a slightly laid back treble.

On the cheap end, the iLoud Micro Monitors ($300) are a touch on the warm side of neutral in my opinion, and $300, I am sensitive to hiss and find them to be good in this regard, but they do have a small amount that's audible if you like to listen loud. Otherwise, if you turn up your pc volume to the max and use the volume control on the back of the speakers, they should have no audible hiss.

For speakers I haven't heard:

I haven't heard the Genelec 8010A, but based on Amir's measurements, they should be nearly as good as the KH80, but perhaps a little warmer on axis (though the difference is likely minimal). Plus they're cheaper at $730.

The iLoud MTM($700), which Amir reviewed and liked as well, are quite neutral have a control on the back that lets you turn down the highs by 2 dB, which should definitely solve any issues with treble harshness.

Good luck!

I bought the iLoud micro monitors on @napilopez 's suggestion and they are fairly neutral. There is a bump post 1khz and a dip around 3k in my pair. Post Eq, they are very enjoyeable and dig pretty deep for their small size. But if you want any bass below 55Hz, you will need a sub.

 

[thewas]

I haven't heard the Genelec 8010A, but based on Amir's measurements, they should be nearly as good as the KH80, but perhaps a little warmer on axis (though the difference is likely minimal). Plus they're cheaper at $730.

The Genelec competitor of the KH80 is the 8020, the smaller 8010 can't of course compete at SPL in the bass:

 

[Kryz]

Thank you all for the responses!

I'm not sure you're looking for is that much of a "warm" sound. Contrary to popular belief, the Bose QC35 actually has a rather neutral frequency response. It follows the research-backed Harman curve quite closely when noise cancelling is on. The AirPods Pro are pretty close to, but they lack bass, and that is likely what makes them sound harsh to you (a lack of bass often sounds like an excess of treble). I suspect that a neutral speaker, listened slightly off axis, or perhaps a speaker just slightly warm of neutral, should sound good to you.

The Wharfdales generally have a downward tilt in their in-room curve. However, if you are using them on a desk, the on-axis and listening window responses take on more priority, and these speakers have a severe peak in the treble that you could very well find irritating. Although theystill trend towards warm, so maybe just listening a bit off axis would help.

The Neumann KH80 are basically perfect. No noise, perfect frequency response, as good as it gets in a small speaker. If you listen to them off-axis or don't mind doing a little EQ, they will should sound 'warm.'

I would recommend the KEF LSX if you intend to use them on a desktop, maybe if you can find them used theyd fit your budget. They have a very neutral, but slightly warm sound due to a slightly laid back treble.

On the cheap end, the iLoud Micro Monitors ($300) are a touch on the warm side of neutral in my opinion, and $300, I am sensitive to hiss and find them to be good in this regard, but they do have a small amount that's audible if you like to listen loud. Otherwise, if you turn up your pc volume to the max and use the volume control on the back of the speakers, they should have no audible hiss.

For speakers I haven't heard:

I haven't heard the Genelec 8010A, but based on Amir's measurements, they should be nearly as good as the KH80, but perhaps a little warmer on axis (though the difference is likely minimal). Plus they're cheaper at $730.

The iLoud MTM($700), which Amir reviewed and liked as well, are quite neutral have a control on the back that lets you turn down the highs by 2 dB, which should definitely solve any issues with treble harshness.

Good luck!

Thank you! I think you are right about the "warm" issue. Actually I feel like QC35 while don't easily irritates me like Airpods Pro do, in long sessions I tend to be a bit irritated, more than with the XM3 that are more bassy. Also, I am not so sure what frequency irritates me more. For example, beginning at sec 5 of "Perfect Places" from Lorde, the background beat HURTS so much for my ears with normal, no bassy/warm headphones or speakers. I suspect that beat is 4-5k hz range? I also would say that even normal sibilance is pretty irritating for me. Well, in the end I know I am the problem because my siblings listen at max volume with bright headphones with minimal fatigue, but I wanted to make clear the level of sensitiveness I have.

I am interested about the Neumann speaker that you recommend. I wanted to ask you about how they sound with a pretty reflective room. I am very minimalist and don't have many things in my medium sized room (hard surfaces, no rugs). I have the desktop in front of my bed, I hope that helps the reflection a little. Also the desktop is mainly wood but the legs are metal, is that a problem? I truly want to avoid anything that could fatigue me more, and I usually note that speakers tend to irritate me more easily than headphones, perhaps for the room environment. I could invest in that things that people put in the walls to avoid reflections (that helps with the echo right?), but I would like to ideally avoid rugs because allergies.

Thank you so much again! and sorry for my English, is not my first language. Have a nice day!

 

[AnalogSteph]

Also, I am not so sure what frequency irritates me more. For example, beginning at sec 5 of "Perfect Places" from Lorde, the background beat HURTS so much for my ears with normal, no bassy/warm headphones or speakers. I suspect that beat is 4-5k hz range?

I can definitely hear why that would be irritating, it certainly is to me even at normal volumes.

I also would say that even normal sibilance is pretty irritating for me. Well, in the end I know I am the problem because my siblings listen at max volume with bright headphones with minimal fatigue, but I wanted to make clear the level of sensitiveness I have.

Sounds like you should be keeping it down in general. You don't happen to have a history of ear infections or something? Since you mention tinnitus, I am assuming your hearing has been checked out by an ENT doctor before? Keeping properly hydrated probably wouldn't hurt.

As someone who listens about 10 dB quieter than average, I can definitely relate though.

I could invest in that things that people put in the walls to avoid reflections (that helps with the echo right?), but I would like to ideally avoid rugs because allergies.

Porous absorbers tend to be made from melamin foam (e.g. Basotect), I don't see too much of a problem with those just hanging out on your walls (they might need to occasional vacuuming on top but that's about it) but I'm not an expert on allergies either. Maybe ones covered in acoustic cloth would help this aspect a bit? (Acoustically, best use the thickest ones you can get.) Stone wool in plastic bags may be even less of an issue but that isn't very effective in the highs and more used for bass traps and the like.

You're in an interesting sort of dilemma. I think you should be trying to keep it down to maintain a comfortable kind of listening level, but right now your rather reflective room may be keeping you from doing so, not to mention that I imagine it would be flutter echo galore and that's really not very comfortable. One of the somewhat unexpected side effects of introducing room treatment, at least to me, was that it reduces noise intruding from outside as well.

So I think the plan should be getting the room a whole lot quieter as far as you can and increase your signal to noise ratio that way. Also, standing waves in the mids/highs should be eliminated as far as possible at the listening position. You don't have to do the whole room but having a quiet corner would definitely help.

I have the KH120A's predecessors here, the K+H O110, and those I thought were a major step up from my old monitors even without room treatment. A further advantage should be that their noise level is very low.

You are still going to need something to connect the monitors to whatever you are using as your source, and preferably without any audible problems. We'd need some details on that.

 

[napilopez]

Thank you all for the responses!


Thank you! I think you are right about the "warm" issue. Actually I feel like QC35 while don't easily irritates me like Airpods Pro do, in long sessions I tend to be a bit irritated, more than with the XM3 that are more bassy. Also, I am not so sure what frequency irritates me more. For example, beginning at sec 5 of "Perfect Places" from Lorde, the background beat HURTS so much for my ears with normal, no bassy/warm headphones or speakers. I suspect that beat is 4-5k hz range? I also would say that even normal sibilance is pretty irritating for me. Well, in the end I know I am the problem because my siblings listen at max volume with bright headphones with minimal fatigue, but I wanted to make clear the level of sensitiveness I have.

I am interested about the Neumann speaker that you recommend. I wanted to ask you about how they sound with a pretty reflective room. I am very minimalist and don't have many things in my medium sized room (hard surfaces, no rugs). I have the desktop in front of my bed, I hope that helps the reflection a little. Also the desktop is mainly wood but the legs are metal, is that a problem? I truly want to avoid anything that could fatigue me more, and I usually note that speakers tend to irritate me more easily than headphones, perhaps for the room environment. I could invest in that things that people put in the walls to avoid reflections (that helps with the echo right?), but I would like to ideally avoid rugs because allergies.

Thank you so much again! and sorry for my English, is not my first language. Have a nice day!

Every time I've listened to the KH80, it's been in a room with hard surfaces, so I don't think anything will be accentuated by your room. That said, I agree with @AnalogSteph that some treatment may be in order if you feel like your room is affecting it. You don't have to worry about the metal legs of the desktop.

But before you do that, I would also like to emphasize the utility of EQ. If you start with a neutral speakers with great directivity like the Neumann's you are able to EQ them to sound almost any way you want. If a speaker has smooth directivity, you can easily EQ timbre to sound just the way you want. EQ just can't fix or change directivity/spatial properties.

 

[knownunknown]

I have the Denton 85s in my living room and in my opinion they would be waaaay to big for desktop use.

can recommend the genelec 8020s. best money i've spent in this whole audiophile black hole.

 

[jonfitch]

Non-fatiguing really depends on the end listener. Everybody is more sensitive to some frequencies more than others. For example I can't stand a bumped up midrange, excess energy from 300-1K really grates my nerves--I prefer recessed mids. I really associate this range with honkiness and horn speakers in general. To me a forward midrange is far worse than a treble spike--for example the Sennheiser HD800 and the 6K peak never really bothered me that much. Your mileage may very.

 

[Krstoka]

Yep, usually because of vertical directivity. In smaller non-coaxial speakers, vertical directivity will usually be better by default, whereas even larger nearfield speakers will take some vertical directivity into account, while farfield speakers often don't care lol.

I would consider Dynaudio BM 5MKIII they are very full sounding without sounding harsh and the also sound 3D like they are reaching all around you in nearfield cheers

 

[Krstoka]

Hi! I was reading the review for Wharfedale Diamond 220 because I read that they have a non fatiguing sound, but I read also that they are too big for near-field listening and also have humming/shuffing white noise.

Is there a better alternative? I have tinnitus and even normal treble irritates me. For reference, I know Bose and Sony headphones have crappy sound but the warm sound signature of Bose QC35 and XM3 are nice for my ears and long listening sessions. In the contrary, the very popular Airpods Pro are very harsh for me.

Is there high quality speakers good for close listening (no humming sound) and non fatiguing sound? bugdet is around $500-1000. Can be more if there are no good options in that price.

Thank you so much for the help!

Dynaudio BM5 MKIII you will thank me later hehe, they are 3D sounding and they go really low for the size and no harshness at all cheers