Looking for Advice on High-End DIY DAC Kits / Unit Bricasti - Lavry

[PW8888]

Hi Everyone,
This is my first post here, so thanks in advance and apologies if this kind of question isn’t usually posted — please let me know if there’s a more appropriate section.
I’ve been reading a lot on ASR lately and I really appreciate the level of detail and technical knowledge shared by the community. I’m now diving into the world of DIY DACs and would love your input.
I usually work with high-end gear like my Bricasti M1SE and Lavry DAC’s (mixing and mastering work), which are my daily tools for mixing and critical listening. But I’m now curious to explore more affordable DAC designs — kits, PCBs, or modules — to see how far DIY can really go in terms of sound quality.
I’m especially interested in:

• Kits or PCBs or Unit using chips like AD1955, AKM AK4499, ESS ES9038Q2M, or even R2R , ROHM (or of course things I don't know)

I know these chips can be tricky to implement properly — layout, clocking, I/V conversion, etc. — but I’m not looking to copy any commercial unit. I’m just aiming to build something serious and clean, with clarity, speed, depth, and natural tone.
If you’ve built something in this league, or can point me toward solid kits or references, I’d really appreciate it.
Thanks a lot for your experience and help
Thanks again,
Phil

 

[thunderchicken]

AMB’s Gamma 3 is pretty cool!

 

[Roland68]

Hi Everyone,
This is my first post here, so thanks in advance and apologies if this kind of question isn’t usually posted — please let me know if there’s a more appropriate section.
I’ve been reading a lot on ASR lately and I really appreciate the level of detail and technical knowledge shared by the community. I’m now diving into the world of DIY DACs and would love your input.
I usually work with high-end gear like my Bricasti M1SE and Lavry DAC’s (mixing and mastering work), which are my daily tools for mixing and critical listening. But I’m now curious to explore more affordable DAC designs — kits, PCBs, or modules — to see how far DIY can really go in terms of sound quality.
I’m especially interested in:

• Kits or PCBs or Unit using chips like AD1955, AKM AK4499, ESS ES9038Q2M, or even R2R , ROHM (or of course things I don't know)

I know these chips can be tricky to implement properly — layout, clocking, I/V conversion, etc. — but I’m not looking to copy any commercial unit. I’m just aiming to build something serious and clean, with clarity, speed, depth, and natural tone.
If you’ve built something in this league, or can point me toward solid kits or references, I’d really appreciate it.
Thanks a lot for your experience and help
Thanks again,
Phil

I've built several DIY DACs myself from circuit boards, kits with circuit boards, and evaluation boards.
Therefore, I would generally advise against such a thing, partly because you can now get some DACs for €80-120 whose measured values hardly any DIY DAC can match. For €200-500, you can get several DACs that are already at the top end of the best list.

Most boards and kits on Aliexpress are based on circuit designs from chip manufacturers and evaluation boards, but often contain errors and/or poor design decisions. Furthermore, they are often just as expensive, or more expensive, than ready-made DACs with the same chips.

There are several offers for DIY DAC kits worldwide; you can find information about them most easily in Google image searches, in the corresponding subforum of Diyaudio, and various Chinese/Asian forums. The search terms "DIY DAC," "DIY DAC Kit," and "DAC Kit" should yield plenty of results.

 

[PW8888]

thanks Roland , that is my main problem in fact... too many show up , and the main problem I have is that the implementation is crucial in that case ...I was then wondering what would be the best one out of the lot TBH... thanks a LOT for your advice ....

 

[Roland68]

thanks Roland , that is my main problem in fact... too many show up , and the main problem I have is that the implementation is crucial in that case ...I was then wondering what would be the best one out of the lot TBH... thanks a LOT for your advice ....

All these poor implementations are precisely the reason why I'm no longer bothering with DIY DACs.
If you get better results with an AK4118 (approx. €30) or 4137/4118 board (approx. €65) and a cheap DAC board like the ES9018K2M I2S DAC decoder board for €10-15, or the old ES9028Q2M I2S decoder board DAC balanced for €30-35, than with the kits costing several hundred euros, then it's pointless.

The Dual PCM1794A DAC balanced decoder boards for under €50-60 aren't bad either.
There are some Chinese AK4493 balanced boards that are modeled after the evaluation boards, like the AK4499EXEQ+AK4191EQ (approx. €65/€190), and are well-suited for your own builds and modifications.

But with the SMSL SU-1/C100, you get two very good AK4493 DACs, cheaper than anything you can build, and probably better too. You can get the AK4499EXEQ+AK4191EQ from the Topping E70 Velvet DAC for €349 in a very good implementation including power supply and case.

Otherwise, there seem to be a lot of DIY DAC kits worldwide, including r2r, for example, but the better ones start at €400-500 or are significantly more expensive.
YouTube is also a good source.

 

[Ropeburn]

DIY DACs are such a thing. Before you know it, you aren't paying less money for a certain quality because you built it yourself, but instead you're paying more money for the privilege of having all the assembly fun. Pretty much.

 

[Roland68]

DIY DACs are such a thing. Before you know it, you aren't paying less money for a certain quality because you built it yourself, but instead you're paying more money for the privilege of having all the assembly fun. Pretty much.

Definitely!

 

[PW8888]

All these poor implementations are precisely the reason why I'm no longer bothering with DIY DACs.
If you get better results with an AK4118 (approx. €30) or 4137/4118 board (approx. €65) and a cheap DAC board like the ES9018K2M I2S DAC decoder board for €10-15, or the old ES9028Q2M I2S decoder board DAC balanced for €30-35, than with the kits costing several hundred euros, then it's pointless.

The Dual PCM1794A DAC balanced decoder boards for under €50-60 aren't bad either.
There are some Chinese AK4493 balanced boards that are modeled after the evaluation boards, like the AK4499EXEQ+AK4191EQ (approx. €65/€190), and are well-suited for your own builds and modifications.

But with the SMSL SU-1/C100, you get two very good AK4493 DACs, cheaper than anything you can build, and probably better too. You can get the AK4499EXEQ+AK4191EQ from the Topping E70 Velvet DAC for €349 in a very good implementation including power supply and case.

Otherwise, there seem to be a lot of DIY DAC kits worldwide, including r2r, for example, but the better ones start at €400-500 or are significantly more expensive.
YouTube is also a good source.

ahahahhaha ok .... what a journey ... I need to do even more homework ahahaha....
per exemple in the case Toppin E70 Velvet dac...would it be possible to get a kit equivalent to the Toppin E70 (AK4499EXEQ+AK4191EQ) ... but for cheaper , or not even bother togo that route ? . thanks for your great input ! and clear explanation

 

[Roland68]

ahahahhaha ok .... what a journey ... I need to do even more homework ahahaha....
per exemple in the case Toppin E70 Velvet dac...would it be possible to get a kit equivalent to the Toppin E70 (AK4499EXEQ+AK4191EQ) ... but for cheaper , or not even bother togo that route ? . thanks for your great input ! and clear explanation

I thought this point was clear.
DIY in this area definitely doesn't get any cheaper!!!

An E70 Velvet is currently on sale at Amazon DE for €307.
The cheapest AK4499EXEQ+AK4191EQ kit is around €190, plus an input board for €30-60, a USB XMOS board for €30-80, the complete power supply for around €80, and a case for €45-100. At this point, you don't have a display, remote control, or volume control.
Add up the total: +40-200 hours depending on the level of prefabrication.

I really doubt that you'll get better measurable performance than with a current DAC for €67-201 (Amazon DE SU-1 and D50 III). Honestly, I expect worse performance.

- If price is your motivation, it will be a waste of time and money.
- If you want to build something special without the expectation of achieving better measurement values than, for example, the DACs mentioned above, there are various kits available, but they start at around €500 and go up to several thousand euros. Most of them do not include a power supply, case, etc.
- If you want to delve into the development and possibilities of DACs, choose your favorite DAC model and buy the original evaluation board. Get it running and then design your own board.
- If you simply want to build a DAC yourself, without any demands on measurement values, etc., then get a real kit, pre-populated with SMDs, depending on your soldering skills. Alternatively, you can find bare boards for DACs on platforms like oshwlab, etc., or search for bare DAC boards.

 

[JeffS7444]

IME, the point where DACs are subjectively "as good as it gets" is pretty easily and cheaply attained.

I've previously built AMB's Gamma-2 with all options, and both the basic and super-deluxe power supplies. And when NWAVGUY announced Objective DAC as a sort of proof-of-concept, I immediately bought one. I even splurged on a Benchmark DAC2HGC! Sometimes, more money buys more useful features, as in the case of the Benchmark. But in terms of what I can actually hear, ODAC really does seem to get me there, at a fraction of the price of the others, albeit in a no-frills package: ODAC is USB-only, and not designed to drive headphones.

I think AMB enjoys the intellectual stimulation of trying out different ideas regardless of whether there's an audible advantage. This can be fun too, but kind of costly.

 

[PW8888]

I thought this point was clear.
DIY in this area definitely doesn't get any cheaper!!!

An E70 Velvet is currently on sale at Amazon DE for €307.
The cheapest AK4499EXEQ+AK4191EQ kit is around €190, plus an input board for €30-60, a USB XMOS board for €30-80, the complete power supply for around €80, and a case for €45-100. At this point, you don't have a display, remote control, or volume control.
Add up the total: +40-200 hours depending on the level of prefabrication.

I really doubt that you'll get better measurable performance than with a current DAC for €67-201 (Amazon DE SU-1 and D50 III). Honestly, I expect worse performance.

- If price is your motivation, it will be a waste of time and money.
- If you want to build something special without the expectation of achieving better measurement values than, for example, the DACs mentioned above, there are various kits available, but they start at around €500 and go up to several thousand euros. Most of them do not include a power supply, case, etc.
- If you want to delve into the development and possibilities of DACs, choose your favorite DAC model and buy the original evaluation board. Get it running and then design your own board.
- If you simply want to build a DAC yourself, without any demands on measurement values, etc., then get a real kit, pre-populated with SMDs, depending on your soldering skills. Alternatively, you can find bare boards for DACs on platforms like oshwlab, etc., or search for bare DAC boards.

Sorry, Roland… I was actually wondering about the price gap between DIY and "cheaper" DACs, as I'm doing research to see how they stack up against my mixing/mastering DAC (which costs thousands). Everything is now really clear regarding the E70 — I need to thank you for your very clear explanation!

When it comes to sound — which, at the end of the day, is the only thing that truly matters — I suppose I need to start with the evaluation boards to figure out which one I like best? That might eventually lead me to building my own DAC (with the help of an electronics engineer, of course).
I'm just trying to establish a solid process. Thanks so much already for everything you've shared!

 

[PW8888]

IME, the point where DACs are subjectively "as good as it gets" is pretty easily and cheaply attained.

I've previously built AMB's Gamma-2 with all options, and both the basic and super-deluxe power supplies. And when NWAVGUY announced Objective DAC as a sort of proof-of-concept, I immediately bought one. I even splurged on a Benchmark DAC2HGC! Sometimes, more money buys more useful features, as in the case of the Benchmark. But in terms of what I can actually hear, ODAC really does seem to get me there, at a fraction of the price of the others, albeit in a no-frills package: ODAC is USB-only, and not designed to drive headphones.

I think AMB enjoys the intellectual stimulation of trying out different ideas regardless of whether there's an audible advantage. This can be fun too, but kind of costly.

HI Jeff , ok .... I see ...."IME, the point where DACs are subjectively "as good as it gets" is pretty easily and cheaply attained."
thanks !
p

 

[MCH]

I personally find more fun in designing your own PCBs with the features, size, etc. that you want. Getting them done is so cheap nowadays that in my opinion is viable as a hobby even if you don't intend to actually use the finished device.
But unless you know a fair bit of electronics, it is a rabbit hole that will you to invest a lot of time in it, specially at the beginning.
Top of the line chips are very expensive, but prices fall like 90% to the next trier and what you lose in performance, you wouldn't probably achieve it anyways with a DIY PCB or assembling modules....
My 2 cents.

 

[PW8888]

To be honest, I really wonder what kind of DAC chips produce what kind of sound.
I know it might sound stupid—especially since I'm not talking about everything that surrounds the DAC—but still...
As an example: every single DAC I’ve heard that uses ESS chips feels a bit off to me. On the other hand, I kind of like the fluidity of the AD1955.
But hey—maybe I’m just crazy.
The goal of this post is simply to discover other DAC brands (like ROHM, which I hadn’t heard of before) that might be worth exploring.
Maybe I should add that if they would have all the same output stage (maybe) and I could switch between different chips maybe think would get a bit easier (but impossible I guess become of the surrounding component ...)