Looking for advice on a 3 channel Hypex Ncore Amplifier - ATI vs Nord/Apollon

[WhiteCoatGeek]

Looking for advice on a 3 channel Hypex Ncore amplifier - ATI vs Nord/Apollon

I currently have a ATI AT528NC amplifier which powers my surrounds and atmos speakers. I am looking for another amp for my LCR (Procella P8). I have decided to stay with a Class D amp specifically Hypex ncore based.

I was wondering why there was such a discrepancy in weight between ATI (17.8 Kg) and Nord's (5.6Kg) implementation of hypex ncore and if it impacts the performance in any way. It seems that ATI uses a linear power supply whereas Nord and Apollon use SMPS. ATI offers a much better warranty and has very good reputation but I am not sure if the price difference is worth it.

On the AVS forum there are backers on both side and I was wondering what do people on this forum think. I know there are several members here who are much more knowledgeable than me when it comes to these things.

 

[Julf]

It would be odd to go with a linear power supply.

 

[WhiteCoatGeek]

It would be odd to go with a linear power supply.

Thanks!

Any other opinions or suggestions?

 

[Julf]

Thanks!

Any other opinions or suggestions?

What I did was to get the NC modules straight from Hypex, along with th matching power supplies, and put them in an enclosure. The wiring is really easy.

 

[laidick]

I had both ATI 528nc and Apollon NC8350MP.
And finally I keep Apollon and sold the ATI.

I do think the LPS doesn't make sense to hypex and sound wise they are just about the same to my ear.
ATI doesn't worth that premium to me .

 

[Zoomer]

Standard Hypex is as good as it gets, the measurements speak for themselves.
The problem for manufacturers is how to justify juicy margins. Hence custom Op Amps, LPS andwhatnot.

If you're not into DIY also check out kjf
Or if you can somehow meet your requirements with a mix of stereo and mono amps: audiophonics

 

[WhiteCoatGeek]

Standard Hypex is as good as it gets, the measurements speak for themselves.
The problem for manufacturers is how to justify juicy margins. Hence custom Op Amps, LPS andwhatnot.

If you're not into DIY also check out kjf
Or if you can somehow meet your requirements with a mix of stereo and mono amps: audiophonics

I had both ATI 528nc and Apollon NC8350MP.
And finally I keep Apollon and sold the ATI.

I do think the LPS doesn't make sense to hypex and sound wise they are just about the same to my ear.
ATI doesn't worth that premium to me .

Thanks for your input. I think I am going to try out Nord. Looked at apollon but they don't offer any 3 Channel Amp.

Any opinions on NC500 vs NC502MP?

 

[Nick Laslett]

Have you looked at KJFAudio. They use the Hypex Ncore MP modules. You can spec four different modules of your choice. Their enclosure has fans, which I think is good, but your use case might be different. I also like the Neutrik sockets, which are the same as March Audio use, and look to be better than most other Ncore implementations with XLR and RCA with a switch in the signal path.

From reading various threads across the net, the MP modules are not quite as good as the NC500, but I‘ve never found any measurements to quantify this. From the Spec sheet the MP modules look good. The other bonus is the integrated Power Supply means there is one less thing for the installer to get wrong.

I’m thinking of replacing my Denon AVR-3808 for 5 channels of Ncore amplification.

 

[Zoomer]

Any opinions on NC500 vs NC502MP?

NC500 = 700w 4 Ohm mono, separate power supply, unbuffered (needs hird party input buffer)
NC500MP/NC502MP = 500w 4 Ohm mono/stereo, integrated power supply, buffered, connector for additional low power tweeter amplifier.

The MP's are much more cost effective. Price difference 400-600 euro for stereo version
SQ-wise I doubt if there is any audible difference.

Edit: strike-through

 

[Julf]

From reading various threads across the net, the MP modules are not quite as good as the NC500, but I‘ve never found any measurements to quantify this. From the Spec sheet the MP modules look good.

There is a heck of a lot of silliness, folklore and old wives tales on the net. I think it is important to keep asking "what's the evidence?".

 

[Nick Laslett]

There is a heck of a lot of silliness, folklore and old wives tales on the net. I think it is important to keep asking "what's the evidence?".

I agree.

This was the page of the diyaudio thread on Hypex that really put my mind at rest about the MP modules.

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/306815-hypex-fusion-plate-amps-30.html

bavmike and Boggit both praised the modules. Boggit said “The NCXXXMP sound superb very very close to a standard buffered NC500”.

I only found ASR in September due to the NAD 758 review. I’d only heard of Bruno Putzeys because of the Kii Audio active speaker coverage on Darko’s YouTube channel. The Hypex Ncores were completely unknown to me until a few weeks ago.

I had a lot of fun researching the potential issue of high output gain on the NC400 module and removing the SMD resistor R141 where your name first came to my attention. Since then, I’ve had the fortune to read a lot of your advice across this and other forums.

 

[tw99]

Boggit (a manufacturer) is hardly going to say that the cheaper modules sound as good as the more expensive ones.....

In reality, I doubt they'd be distinguishable in a properly conducted listening test.

 

[amirm]

I was wondering why there was such a discrepancy in weight between ATI (17.8 Kg) and Nord's (5.6Kg) implementation of hypex ncore and if it impacts the performance in any way. It seems that ATI uses a linear power supply whereas Nord and Apollon use SMPS. ATI offers a much better warranty and has very good reputation but I am not sure if the price difference is worth it.

Switching power supplies are much more efficient, smaller and lighter. However, they have a hard limit of what power they provide. Linear Power supplies don't have this as the voltage is simply allowed to sag. Assuming PSRR of the amplifier is high enough, then that sag wouldn't cause a performance problem but will potentially provide more power.

You can see this in my measurements of amplifiers with switching power supplies where the peak and max power are roughly equal.

 

[Zoomer]

Switching power supplies are much more efficient, smaller and lighter. However, they have a hard limit of what power they provide. Linear Power supplies don't have this as the voltage is simply allowed to sag. Assuming PSRR of the amplifier is high enough, then that sag wouldn't cause a performance problem but will potentially provide more power.

As a non-techie I'm wondering now if hooking up a Hypex Ncore module (e.g. NC400) with a beefier than standard Hypex SMPS will also result in MORE POWER?

 

[Julf]

As a non-techie I'm wondering now if hooking up a Hypex Ncore module (e.g. NC400) with a beefier than standard Hypex SMPS will also result in MORE POWER?

Not any more peak power, but it will be able to sustain the maximum power longer.

 

[JimB]

As a non-techie I'm wondering now if hooking up a Hypex Ncore module (e.g. NC400) with a beefier than standard Hypex SMPS will also result in MORE POWER?

A little late, here, but as said by others, the power SMPS has a 'hard' limit to its output. But, that is also true for the NC400. So, as long as the specific SMPS has sufficient output to take the NC400 to its limit, short term and longer, enough is enough. If you want extra comfort margin, you can pair it with an SMPS1200A400, as NORD has done with their Purifi module amp.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-se-1et400a-dual-mono-stereo-amp-review.9938/

A lot of discussion over there as to whether it is wasted.

I happen to like the SMPS1200A400, though the SMPS600N400 is the intended matching power supply offered by Hypex, and the one most often used with it.

 

[Krobar]

I would also be interested in NC500 with standard Hypex input buffer VS 502MP. Apollon seems to be a slightly nicer build than Nord but they are largely the same (I have an 8350 too).

 

[Zoomer]

6-channel NC500 for sale used, 3158 Euro, with Nord input buffer though.

 

[Matias]

I would go with Nord or Apollon.

 

[March Audio]

6-channel NC500 for sale used, 3158 Euro, with Nord input buffer though.

View attachment 41124

That's an interesting picture