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Looking for advice about usb audio interface for recording from a turntable

morgul

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Hey there, I currently own a Stanton ST150 turntable, which has a built-in preamp with RCA and digital coaxial output. I'm looking for the possible solutions and budget to record the signal, as I currently only have a line input available on my internal soundcard. I've come to the conclusion that my essentiel need for recording is a usb or usb-c audio interface. Looks like something like MOTU M2 or M4 look great and are affordable, but they lack digital input. There's also the Audient iD14, the Focurite Clarett 2PRE USB, the RME babyface pro FS but price's a bit too much I think.
 

somebodyelse

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If you only need optical input to USB there are a load of cheap 5.1 audio adapters that include optical inputs and should do the job. Search amazon or ebay for USB 5.1 optical and you should find them around $15. MOTU, Focusrite etc. would be good if you need the analog inputs.
 
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morgul

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Yes I've seen these kind of devices but it's not always clear if they provide an audio usb input when connected to a computer, and I wonder what's the quality of these. So my conclusion is if I want quality recording I should get a usb audio interface with optical input to record from the digital ouput, but seems like the budget for these kind of UAD is at least $500. I could go without optical input as the interface will do the analog to digital conversion.
 

Thalis

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Hey there, I currently own a Stanton ST150 turntable, which has a built-in preamp with RCA and digital coaxial output. I'm looking for the possible solutions and budget to record the signal, as I currently only have a line input available on my internal soundcard. I've come to the conclusion that my essentiel need for recording is a usb or usb-c audio interface. Looks like something like MOTU M2 or M4 look great and are affordable, but they lack digital input. There's also the Audient iD14, the Focurite Clarett 2PRE USB, the RME babyface pro FS but price's a bit too much I think.


Hi... since your phono stage has a coaxial SPDIF out....... perhaps you can get something like a Topping E30... and then use Loopback in Audacity to record? Just suggesting a cheaper solution and then you can use the E30 in a system for the future?
 
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morgul

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@Thalis this looks like an interesting solution, since I'd like a versatile device that I could use as a usb DAC, headphone amplifier. I think I've forgotten that loopback recording. I thinks I'm going to try this, since I have my turntable plugged into an Fiio BTA30 usb dac, thank you.
 

Thalis

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@Thalis this looks like an interesting solution, since I'd like a versatile device that I could use as a usb DAC, headphone amplifier. I think I've forgotten that loopback recording. I thinks I'm going to try this, since I have my turntable plugged into an Fiio BTA30 usb dac, thank you.


Ah then you can try Audacity with the Fiio as it has coax In/OUT.......... great! :)
 
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morgul

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Cool and I can save money to buy a better cartridge and or phono stage...
 
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morgul

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@Thalis, so I'm trying to record audio input from FiiO BTA30 with audacity wasapi loopback, but it turns out no signal from turntable is recorded, I can only record a signal played by computer software, are you sure this is possible ?
 

Thalis

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@Thalis, so I'm trying to record audio input from FiiO BTA30 with audacity wasapi loopback, but it turns out no signal from turntable is recorded, I can only record a signal played by computer software, are you sure this is possible ?


Do you see the Fiio listed under Recording Devices in your Windows? If not then it won't work :(. Dang I assumed yours would be cos my Fiio E10k is listed as a recording device and assumed my E30 would be too and I just double checked and it really doesn't work :facepalm:

Now I remember why I bought something else to do some tests recording vinyl years ago. I have a USB mixer... the Behringer Xenyx 302USB and it works fine in Audacity as a recording device.

My apologies for assuming your Fiio would work. I guess you really need either a USB mixer or a more expensive DAC with ADC.
 
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morgul

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Hey no problem that was worth the try and I learned about that wasapi lookback feature. I see the FiiO BTA30 device listed, however if I try to record when playing audio from the turntable through the FiiO BTA30, it doesn't record any signal. If I play an audio signal from a software player in windows, then if I record , that signal's recorded.
 

Thalis

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Hey no problem that was worth the try and I learned about that wasapi lookback feature. I see the FiiO BTA30 device listed, however if I try to record when playing audio from the turntable through the FiiO BTA30, it doesn't record any signal. If I play an audio signal from a software player in windows, then if I record , that signal's recorded.


Yeah that's what loopback is... you record from the playback device (your DAC). When I tested my USB mixer just now to double confirm I do not select loopback. I was sending signal from the Fiio E10k to the Behringer via RCA and selected the Behringer in Audacity as a recording device (not loopback).

I can bypass the Behringer's variable input/output by plugging the RCA into the 2-track input so I get the actual output of the E10k with no attenuation or boosting of the signal. Then I can do the post editing in Audacity.

Just to add.......... the Behringer is a budget USB mixer and only a max of 16/48 either way but for vinyl it shouldn't be an issue and I would stick to 16/44.1 as a final result of that particular recording.

Again, my apologies.
 

AnalogSteph

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I don't know how much sense it makes to insist on using the turntable's built-in ADC. Chances are it'll be a contemporary consumer-level ADC like CS5341 or AK5359 or similar, run at either 44.1 or 48 kHz... pretty much what you get in $25 A/D converter boxes.

What sort of onboard audio is available? Even a rather basic chip will tend to have a somewhat better ADC in it than a basic USB audio codec (PCM290x), one capable of 24/96 or at least 16/96) recording to boot. By the time you get to an ALC1200 or even ALC1220, you'll be at the level of said A/D converter boxes or even beyond.

In any case, using the onboard line-in via an appropriate RCA to 3.5 mm cable is well worth a shot - we used to record analog media on worse 20 years ago. I would recommend recording at 96 kHz, 16 or 24 bit, setting up both the recording device and software accordingly. (Note: When using Audacity on Windows, 24-bit capture requires choosing the WASAPI audio API. If ASIO is required for a DAW, ASIO4All should do the trick.)

The ST-150 should be set up for LINE output (how good its built-in phonopre might be is anyone's guess), with ground lift slid over to the right (i.e. lifted).

If you want some fancier hardware, I might try a Sound Blaster X-Fi HD... it's a consumer level USB device using a CS5361 ADC that can be connected using ordinary RCA cables and even comes with a built-in phonopre if need be. (It supports 48 or 96 kHz only if memory serves, but that's fine in this application. The line-in also seems to be fixed level, presumably 2 Vrms as Creative cards usually are, but providing digital gain is trivial and unproblematic with 24-bit capture.) Asus Xonar U7 MkII would be another similar option, no phonopre but same ADC (drivers may be iffy).

While I would recommend recording in 24/96, that does not mean you have to keep things that way afterwards. Even Audacity comes with a high-quality (SoX) resampler, so downsampling to 24/48 or 24/44 is easily doable.

For vinyl recording, about the most relevant performance characteristic is anti-alias filtering. This means the model of ADC used becomes central, next to analog connectivity and levels. It would take something like the iD14 for a substantial step up, and even then the main advantage is being able to record at 48 or 44.1 kHz straight. Oversampled recording will let you get away with a substantially more pedestrian ADC. Also note that newer does not necessarily equal better, as in the last decade or so low latency has generally been prioritized over digital filter performance.
 
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morgul

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@AnalogSteph, thank you for your reply. So if I understand you think I should avoid using the buit-in phono stage ? If so I need to find a phono stage. I was thinking about Schiit Mani or Cambridge duo, would you have any suggestion in the same price range ?
My onboard audio chip is ALC1220 , and I've already tried (successfully) recording the signal from the onboard line-in. (from st150 coaxial digital output to FiiO BTA 30 input, then from dac rca output to 3.5 mm with a very basic cable I had for years.
I have a contact problem with my coaxial digital cable / connector on st150 which is very annoying, I lose stereo...
I'd like to do better but not spend too much.
At first I bought the FiiO BTA 30 thinking I could use it to output into onboard audio through optical spdif output, but what I thought was an onboard spdif input turned to be an output ...
You're right, Creative X-Fi HD seems to do the work, but is it really worth the price, shouldn't I invest a little more to get something more professional ? Audient iD14 MKII isn't reviewed yet unfortunately ;)
 

AnalogSteph

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My onboard audio chip is ALC1220 , and I've already tried (successfully) recording the signal from the onboard line-in. (from st150 coaxial digital output to FiiO BTA 30 input, then from dac rca output to 3.5 mm with a very basic cable I had for years.
I'm not sure why you are making things so complicated for yourself. Signal flow in this scenerio is literally looking like this:
Phono cartridge > ST-150 phonopre > ST-150 ADC > ST-150 SPDIF transmitter > BTA-30 DAC > ALC-1220 ADC.

There is an entire extra A/D and D/A conversion in there. What is it that you were hoping to gain over
Phono cartridge > ST-150 phonopre > ALC-1220 ADC
? Assuming cable length is staying manageable, of course.

I have literally no idea how good the ST-150's built-in phonopre is and whether there is any hope of substantially improving audio quality using an external one. (There have been some cases of Phono / Line switches that left e.g. some load capacitance connected and people ended up modding things to obtain a direct cartridge connection... AT-LP120 I think?)

You're right, Creative X-Fi HD seems to do the work, but is it really worth the price, shouldn't I invest a little more to get something more professional ?
As long as you don't have very particular needs like trying to record CD-4 quadrophonic records and don't mind oversampling during recording, I don't see the point in anything much fancier... an consumer-level input with a midrange ADC is quite sufficient. Otherwise you're just making your own life harder by having to deal with interoperability issues and whatnot.
Audient iD14 MKII isn't reviewed yet unfortunately ;)
I was thinking the "old" iD14 anyway. Its PCM4202 ADC has a pretty good digital filter that should be essentially aliasing-free to 20 kHz even when recording at 44.1 kHz straight, much like an AK5385(/A/B). When you are trying to record crummy old analog media with a propensity towards generating ultrasonic garbage, newer does not mean better. When you want an absolutely bulletproof anti-alias filter, the part to beat still is the AK5394A released in 2002, almost never seen in consumer gear. Since the late 2000s, some anti-alias filter performance has generally been sacrificed in the interest of reduced latency for live monitoring in music recording applications... with higher recording sample rates being in use, this became easier to get away with in general. The filter set provided by current model AKM ADCs is nothing I am particularly fond of.
 
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morgul

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Seems like the puffin from parks audio could be a good preamp with tosling output to an audient ID 14 MK II for recording.
 
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