Looking for a small DAC to hide off-desk

[ChaoscripT]

The MX Master 4 has a different gesture button, but I haven't tried it. (I only upgrade my mouse when the gunk in my scroll wheel gets too much)

The mouse will costs more then the volume knob

 

[jimmy_WAI]

Hi,

I’m looking for advice on a small DAC that I can basically hide and keep off my desk.
I don’t mind at all if it has no volume knob.

Currently I’m using an SMSL D6, and I’m very happy with its performance.
The only reason I’m considering replacing it is purely desk minimalism - I want the desk as clean and empty as possible.

I’m likely going to buy Edifier M60 or Kanto Ora powered speakers. Both offer USB and analog inputs, but I still prefer this setup:

• USB from computer → external DAC
• RCA or 3.5mm from DAC → speakers

My assumption (please correct me if I’m wrong) is that the DACs built into these speakers are probably not on the same level as a decent standalone DAC.

Key requirements:

• Small form factor (easy to hide under/behind the desk)
• No need for a volume knob on the DAC itself
• Power can be USB-powered or externally powered – no strong preference, just want good engineering
• I plan to control volume using an external physical volume controller on the desk (example - https://aliexpress.com/item/1005008089410412.html )

Yes, I know that the external volume knob is overpriced, but I really like the design and the idea of having a unified controller with room for additional buttons (play/pause, etc).

DACs I’ve looked at so far:

• Topping D10s - $109 (Amir's Review for D10 version)
• Topping E30 II Lite - $99 (Amir's Review)
• SMSL SU-1 - $72 (Amir's Review)

Of course, I’m very open to other recommendations that fit this use case.

Questions:

1. I’ll be moving to macOS soon. Since macOS doesn’t require custom drivers, how do these DACs generally behave there? Any known quirks or limitations?
2. If I end up with multiple volume controls (DAC / speakers + external volume knob), what is the recommended gain structure?
   For example: should the DAC/speakers be set to max or some fixed level, and then control volume only from the external controller?

Thanks in advance - appreciate any measurements-based and experience-based input.

Regards.

i think you are looking for something like shanling h0

btw, edifier m90 available now, the successor of m60.

 

[ChaoscripT]

i think you are looking for something like shanling h0

btw, edifier m90 available now, the successor of m60.

Thanks for that,
Because M60 have inside DSP I decide not to buy external DAC.

M90 is higher (by size) for my needs.

 

[jimmy_WAI]

Thanks for that,
Because M60 have inside DSP I decide not to buy external DAC.

M90 is higher (by size) for my needs.

i have the m60, but the built-in dac only support 48khz and 96khz.
and it doesn't have any asio driver.

 

[ChaoscripT]

i have the m60, but the built-in dac only support 48khz and 96khz.
and it doesn't have any asio driver.

But if you use external DAC it's also use the internal DAC/DSP no?

 

[Apesbrain]

Apple "Dongle DAC" got a good review here:

Review: Apple vs Google USB-C Headphone Adapters

This is a review, detailed measurements and comparison of Apple's USB-C adapter to the current and last version of Google Pixel headphone adapters. The Apple adapter costs just $9 including one day shipping for free. The Google dongle costs $12. Not that any of these are large by any stretch...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[jimmy_WAI]

But if you use external DAC it's also use the internal DAC/DSP no?

yes. if use external dac then m60 process the signal using its adc/dsp.

remember download the app for m60, update its firmware, set the EQ to "movie" (sound best to me for everything)

 

[EERecordist]

The E1DA 9038 & 9039 are compact and perform well. The 9038D6K is a great product. You can also search the ASR review index for DAC and sort by SINAD. For desktop speakers in an unconditioned room, you may not need the best specs. That said, the E1DA Cosmos and 9038D6K with Room EQ Wizard are capable of making very low noise measurements at a very low cost.

 

[rgpit]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0D4YW9YBV/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_4?smid=A2EDEOL32PF03V&th=1

 

[IsaacOscar]

From reading this thread I think OP (@ChaoscripT) has decided not to get a DAC as their speakers already have one inbuilt?

For headphone use I would suggest the Fiio Melody or TRN Black Pearl, they are both quite small, have 10-band PEQ, and give a good amount of power through their 4.4mm port.

But I don't know how suitable they are for speakers (only 2 channels, and they may have not enough power or too much power, no room correction etc.)

 

[Peterinvan]

Hi,

I’m looking for advice on a small DAC that I can basically hide and keep off my desk.
I don’t mind at all if it has no volume knob.

Currently I’m using an SMSL D6, and I’m very happy with its performance.
The only reason I’m considering replacing it is purely desk minimalism - I want the desk as clean and empty as possible.

I’m likely going to buy Edifier M60 or Kanto Ora powered speakers. Both offer USB and analog inputs, but I still prefer this setup:

• USB from computer → external DAC
• RCA or 3.5mm from DAC → speakers

My assumption (please correct me if I’m wrong) is that the DACs built into these speakers are probably not on the same level as a decent standalone DAC.

Key requirements:

• Small form factor (easy to hide under/behind the desk)
• No need for a volume knob on the DAC itself
• Power can be USB-powered or externally powered – no strong preference, just want good engineering
• I plan to control volume using an external physical volume controller on the desk (example - https://aliexpress.com/item/1005008089410412.html )

Yes, I know that the external volume knob is overpriced, but I really like the design and the idea of having a unified controller with room for additional buttons (play/pause, etc).

DACs I’ve looked at so far:

• Topping D10s - $109 (Amir's Review for D10 version)
• Topping E30 II Lite - $99 (Amir's Review)
• SMSL SU-1 - $72 (Amir's Review)

Of course, I’m very open to other recommendations that fit this use case.

Questions:

1. I’ll be moving to macOS soon. Since macOS doesn’t require custom drivers, how do these DACs generally behave there? Any known quirks or limitations?
2. If I end up with multiple volume controls (DAC / speakers + external volume knob), what is the recommended gain structure?
   For example: should the DAC/speakers be set to max or some fixed level, and then control volume only from the external controller?

Thanks in advance - appreciate any measurements-based and experience-based input.

Regards.

My FiiO / Schiit rig takes only 18x18cm of my desk space. I get an R2R DAC with oversampling, Analogue tone controls with the Loki+, a fine Vali3 amp. I have RCA Y-cable out of the Loki+, feeding my KEF active speakers. I am running Win11, so I cant speak to how it would sound with an Apple.

 

[ChaoscripT]

Apple "Dongle DAC" got a good review here:

Review: Apple vs Google USB-C Headphone Adapters

This is a review, detailed measurements and comparison of Apple's USB-C adapter to the current and last version of Google Pixel headphone adapters. The Apple adapter costs just $9 including one day shipping for free. The Google dongle costs $12. Not that any of these are large by any stretch...

www.audiosciencereview.com

What is it? just a cable no?

yes. if use external dac then m60 process the signal using its adc/dsp.

remember download the app for m60, update its firmware, set the EQ to "movie" (sound best to me for everything)

I already downloaded the app, update the firmware, I set it to Music EQ but also use EQ in computer - SoundSource.
You tell me it's prefer to set Movie EQ?
And you also tell it's prefer to use external DAC? I really hear differences?

The E1DA 9038 & 9039 are compact and perform well. The 9038D6K is a great product. You can also search the ASR review index for DAC and sort by SINAD. For desktop speakers in an unconditioned room, you may not need the best specs. That said, the E1DA Cosmos and 9038D6K with Room EQ Wizard are capable of making very low noise measurements at a very low cost.

The room isn't treated in terms of acoustic, and I have Edifier M60 speakers.
The question is if it's really matter with and without external DAC because Edifier have their own DSP.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0D4YW9YBV/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_4?smid=A2EDEOL32PF03V&th=1

What is this cable?

From reading this thread I think OP (@ChaoscripT) has decided not to get a DAC as their speakers already have one inbuilt?

For headphone use I would suggest the Fiio Melody or TRN Black Pearl, they are both quite small, have 10-band PEQ, and give a good amount of power through their 4.4mm port.

But I don't know how suitable they are for speakers (only 2 channels, and they may have not enough power or too much power, no room correction etc.)

Yes, you right.
Currently, I have the Edifier M60 speakers that have built in DSP.

My FiiO / Schiit rig takes only 18x18cm of my desk space. I get an R2R DAC with oversampling, Analogue tone controls with the Loki+, a fine Vali3 amp. I have RCA Y-cable out of the Loki+, feeding my KEF active speakers. I am running Win11, so I cant speak to how it would sound with an Apple.

Thanks for reply.

 

[IsaacOscar]

What is it? just a cable no?

Yes, but it has a DAC chip inside it. If you just want a DAC and no extra features, spending more money or getting something bigger will not give any audible sound quality improvement.

And you also tell it's prefer to use external DAC? I really hear differences?

The general consensus on ASR is that all DACs sound the same, unless: one of them is really bad, one provides more power, or one has some DSP (e.g. PEQ). So unless an external DAC has some feature you want that your speakers are missing (e.g. Bluetooth, more PEQ bands), you won't get any audible benifit.

 

[DVDdoug]

What is it? just a cable no?

The Apple dongle is a DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) and headphone amp. The other one is a DAC with line outputs.

(A headphone output can go a line input but a line output can't drive headphones (because of the headphone's lower impedance).

 

[jimmy_WAI]

I already downloaded the app, update the firmware, I set it to Music EQ but also use EQ in computer - SoundSource.
You tell me it's prefer to set Movie EQ?
And you also tell it's prefer to use external DAC? I really hear differences?

if you don't care about bit perfect playback, native dsd playback, double EQ and can't hear any difference, just use as is.
it's kind of bless to enjoy music.

 

[wwenze]

DSP speakers all use EQ by default (even at "flat" settings) because it uses EQ to correct the frequency response of the drivers.

Edifier goes a bit further where you can choose between like 3-4 EQs that sound and measure just slightly different. Turns out that people and their ear/preference/room each have a different idea of what "best sounding" is. Completely flat may not always translate to most preferable or actually flat.

The EQ is free and is changed by pressing a button so there's no harm in experimenting. Of course if you already have REW then the whole point is moot.

 

[LesterHiggins]

Yes! (assuming you have a nice cloth mouse pad).

(Unfortunately for it to work, the Logitech software needs to be running, so you may have to wait a bit when turning your computer on or waking it from sleep for it to work. After several years of using the software, I've recently ha a problem with the software crashing a lot, but I managed to fix it; EDIT: I posted my solution on a reddit post containing other potential solutions as well, in the off chance it helps some random passersby)

I use an app called SteerMouse that lets you configure "chords" of multiple mouse controls, so when I hold down the right-click button my scroll wheel turns into volume control. It's really stable and reliable. I used to be all about having a knob for volume until I set that up.