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Looking for a good not overly expensive linear power supply

daftcombo

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#41
Well, they can sound different if they have a different frequency response. But then one is right and the others wrong, and the latter could be corrected with just a bit of EQ I think.
Pay attention though that volume differences can appear as sound quality differences.
 

RayDunzl

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#42
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#43
Made me look.

I would note that the accolades for the "better than basic" power supplies in that link come from users of phono amps.
Wouldn't really matter, the principle is the same.

Besides that there are also other sources of feedback.

Look all i can do is believe it or not, there is no real scientific proof that i found, all there is customer reviews from sites like amazon etc, and other forums regarding other products, dyi forums etc etc.

And so far what i have found is pretty convincing, at least concerning this specific product. But i dont wanna shell out more than 100usd for a PSU.

However what could explain it is, that cleaner and more stable voltage the more linear is the amplification.
 

RayDunzl

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#44
You really want it.

Buy it.

Let us know how it goes.

(I might try with a couple of 12V batteries first, just for grins)
 
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#45
There's a lot of talk about LPS being superior to SMPS. I am in the camp that believes you can do better saving towards other upgrades. Even Nelson Pass measures and uses cheap SMPS for some of his designs, so don't blindly discount their use like many others (XP Power VEH20US24, Meanwell GST120A24-P1M).

However, if you really want to try an LPS, there are some options. "Audiophile" power supplies just seem too expensive to me. Making your own linear supply is nice. It's a good hobby, and you get exactly what you pay for. Alternatively, HAM radio supplies are popular as well and readily available used (i.e. Astron).

Also, don't do the battery thing that was just mentioned without checking to see if it requires a regulated supply. It's most likely okay, but without details of the internal parts, I personally wouldn't (unless a regulator is used on the batteries).
 
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#46
There's a lot of talk about LPS being superior to SMPS. I am in the camp that believes you can do better saving towards other upgrades. Even Nelson Pass measures and uses cheap SMPS for some of his designs, so don't blindly discount their use like many others (XP Power VEH20US24, Meanwell GST120A24-P1M).

However, if you really want to try an LPS, there are some options. "Audiophile" power supplies just seem too expensive to me. Making your own linear supply is nice. It's a good hobby, and you get exactly what you pay for. Alternatively, HAM radio supplies are popular as well and readily available used (i.e. Astron).

Also, don't do the battery thing that was just mentioned without checking to see if it requires a regulated supply. It's most likely okay, but without details of the internal parts, I personally wouldn't (unless a regulator is used on the batteries).
Thx for the advice, i checked the website, but i live in eu here its 230v.... there are some chinese linear power supplies for 50usd

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bre...lgo_pvid=a4ff4bc3-f5fb-47b3-9e6e-8500a000d372

this one for instance

i need dc 24v and minimum 400miliampere

i just wonder how they perform compared to more expensive stuff in terms of ripple supression etc
 

Blumlein 88

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#47
Like i said, i probably had to readjust the volume because the 2 amps will hardly run at the same volume even if it's the same volume within windows. The Technics also has it's own volume control, but i left that on whatever it was, only regulated within windows.

But the difference was so night and die that volume regulation hardly matters. Imagine this, you plug your headphones in to your IPhone s7 and then you plug in to your good amp+dac combo, there will be a huge improvement of sound quality regardless of volume control.

snip
Volume regulation is highly important. It takes huge differences in frequency response, distortion or noise to hear a real difference with mismatched volumes. 1 db is enough people will reliably choose the loud one and describe it as sounding much improved over the quieter one even if there is no other difference. When you tell me volume regulation hardly matters, I know none of your conclusions or descriptions have any validity at all. Zero. You are only misleading yourself to argue otherwise instead of learning something helpful. You would do well to measure output voltage with a moderate level test tone. Change the volume control on the Technics until it matches the other device.

LPS changes you are contemplating are likely to make exceptionally small differences or possibly none at all to the output quality of the device.

Those helpful convincing people over at Head-Fi.........they'll not even allow you to discuss the need for volume matching (except only in the Sound science sub-forum). You'll get banned for doing so. The anecdotal testimonials are perhaps convincing and encouraging to you. People here are trying to inform you that likely there is nothing to it. So why don't you believe us?
 

daftcombo

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#48
We need to stop thinking that +1dB or -1dB is just a quantitative difference.

+ a few degrees to water and you can get steam
- a few degrees and you can get ice

A quantitative jump of a few dB in one and the same system can transform a "boring" sound into " physical" notes.
 
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#49
Volume regulation is highly important. It takes huge differences in frequency response, distortion or noise to hear a real difference with mismatched volumes. 1 db is enough people will reliably choose the loud one and describe it as sounding much improved over the quieter one even if there is no other difference. When you tell me volume regulation hardly matters, I know none of your conclusions or descriptions have any validity at all. Zero. You are only misleading yourself to argue otherwise instead of learning something helpful. You would do well to measure output voltage with a moderate level test tone. Change the volume control on the Technics until it matches the other device.

LPS changes you are contemplating are likely to make exceptionally small differences or possibly none at all to the output quality of the device.

Those helpful convincing people over at Head-Fi.........they'll not even allow you to discuss the need for volume matching (except only in the Sound science sub-forum). You'll get banned for doing so. The anecdotal testimonials are perhaps convincing and encouraging to you. People here are trying to inform you that likely there is nothing to it. So why don't you believe us?
First of all, my point is, you don't always need volume matching, of course if you want to exclude all margin of error, but as an example do you need volume matching to hear that 2 car engines sound completly different? I don't think so. It's obvious.

I am not a fan of head-fi, i am not in to forum rivalries either, i generally dislike forums tbh, because somehow forums are like cults, little variances of opinions and beliefs.

But regarding my particular items specifically the "need" of a linear PSU for the amp in question, there is no scientifc testing or neither double blind testing.

Also how the user reviews are written also tells me something. That's exactly why i originally wanted to get the THXAAA 789 because it performed well here and the feedback from owners is also really good. But for instance, that AMP is a really great value for it's money, that's why it's so popular, but the natural question that comes to mind then how does an amp sound that provides more value in terms of performance?

Also, i am not sure if the scientifc tests here tell the entire story, some say they don't because not everything is measurable. For instance, even capacitors impact the sound, is that measurable? Swapping OP amps also changes/improves the sound, is that measurable?

That again for me means two conflicting opinions.
 
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#50
Thx for the advice, i checked the website, but i live in eu here its 230v.... there are some chinese linear power supplies for 50usd

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bre...lgo_pvid=a4ff4bc3-f5fb-47b3-9e6e-8500a000d372

this one for instance

i need dc 24v and minimum 400miliampere

i just wonder how they perform compared to more expensive stuff in terms of ripple supression etc
You'll have to search pretty hard to find any sort of measurement on these devices, and you'll need to properly interpret the available data, which doesn't paint a full picture since the filtering and regulation is unknown within the amp among other things. Random supplies from Aliexpress would definitely be at the point where I'd rather throw money away at a strip club, but good luck on your search.
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/31119-power-supply-8-group-test-lps-and-smps/
 

Blumlein 88

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#51
First of all, my point is, you don't always need volume matching, of course if you want to exclude all margin of error, but as an example do you need volume matching to hear that 2 car engines sound completly different? I don't think so. It's obvious.
It is obvious you don't have an understanding of how confounding volume differences can be. I don't need level matching perhaps between two car engines because they are completely different. But I would if listening to a single recording of an engine over two pieces of gear. Those can sound completely different until you match levels and all differences might disappear. I don't know why you are so dead set against the idea. You are mistaken friend. I suppose unless someone sometime demonstrates it to you, you'll not believe it.
I am not a fan of head-fi, i don't care where the information comes from, i am not in to forum rivalries either, but if there is a great number of testimonials i go by that, of course i also take in to account what gets tested here, i also appreaciate the objectivity.

But regarding my particular items specifically the "need" of a linear PSU for the amp in question, there is no scientifc testing or neither double blind testing.
Well Amir has tested a number of DACs using a few different power supplies including a lab grade benchtop supply from BK precision. Generally the measured results of the analog output aren't improved in any amount to explain a perceived increase in sound quality.
Also how the user reviews are written also tells me something. That's exactly why i originally wanted to get the THXAAA 789 because it performed well here and the feedback from owners is also really good. But for instance, that AMP is a really great value for it's money, that's why it's so popular, but the natural question that comes to mind then how does an amp sound that provides more value in terms of performance?
Well what if the THXAAA 789 is so good nothing that sounds different is more accurate? I don't know such a thing is true, but you would be looking for something that isn't there. Humans have a strong tendency to find what they are looking to find.
Also, i am not sure if the scientifc tests here tell the entire story, some say they don't because not everything is measurable. For instance, even capacitors impact the sound, is that measurable? Swapping OP amps also changes/improves the sound, is that measurable?

That again for me means two conflicting opinions.
The conflict is something you'll have to figure out for yourself. If something changes sound it is measurable.
 

Samoyed

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#52
Any recommendations for an external power supply for my Innuous zen mini? I want to dump the wall wart. Thanks
 

LTig

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#53
Also, i am not sure if the scientifc tests here tell the entire story, some say they don't because not everything is measurable. For instance, even capacitors impact the sound, is that measurable?
Certainly. Douglas Self has done it and reports the measurements and results extensively in his book Small Signal Audio Design (page 51-61, 1st editon 2010). The results however do not backup typical audiophile experiences, for example regarding the use of elcaps as coupling caps. Just make them so big that at the voltage drop at the lowest frequency is less than 100 mV and the distortion is lower than his AP analyzer can detect.
Swapping OP amps also changes/improves the sound, is that measurable?
If the sound changes definitely yes - if not you could still measure differences. Swapping op-amps requires inside knowledge about the circuit otherwise chances are high that you make things worse. Again let me direct you to the book mentioned above which contains a lot of THD measurements of several audiophile op-amps in inverting and non-inverting configuration (page 117 - 136, 1st edition 2010).

If you don't want to believe his results you may have to ditch a lot of recordings though - Douglas Self worked for Soundcraft designing big mixing desks for recording studios, and there are probably countless recordings on the market where the audio signal went through dozens of amplifier stages designed by him - we can safely assume that he knows what he's talking about.
 

jsrtheta

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#54
I don't know the technical explanation for why it sound better but it does. Everyone that bought it reported that it does.

https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/power-supplies/ scroll a bit down then you will see it
I spent an evening onetime with some pro-audio friends in Chicago. I mentioned power supplies and audibility, and explained that "audiophiles'" find power supplies of utmost importance.

I left them laughing their asses off. As far as I know, they're still there. Laughing.

If your power supply is competently made, another power supply can't make your sources and amps "sound" any better. As for that link, it takes you to deepest, darkest Tweakoland, where truth neither exists nor helps you do anything that actually matters.
 

jsrtheta

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#55
First of all, my point is, you don't always need volume matching, of course if you want to exclude all margin of error, but as an example do you need volume matching to hear that 2 car engines sound completly different? I don't think so. It's obvious.

I am not a fan of head-fi, i am not in to forum rivalries either, i generally dislike forums tbh, because somehow forums are like cults, little variances of opinions and beliefs.

But regarding my particular items specifically the "need" of a linear PSU for the amp in question, there is no scientifc testing or neither double blind testing.

Also how the user reviews are written also tells me something. That's exactly why i originally wanted to get the THXAAA 789 because it performed well here and the feedback from owners is also really good. But for instance, that AMP is a really great value for it's money, that's why it's so popular, but the natural question that comes to mind then how does an amp sound that provides more value in terms of performance?

, some say they don't because not everything is measurable. For instance, even capacitors impact the sound, is that measurable? Swapping OP amps also changes/improves the sound, is that measurable?

That again for me means two conflicting opinions.
Oh good lord. What isn't measurable? And how can a capacitor "impact the sound"?

Jesus, this is arrant nonsense. There are ways to legitimately determine actual differences exist between one component and another. Instead
Wouldn't really matter, the principle is the same.

Besides that there are also other sources of feedback.

Look all i can do is believe it or not, there is no real scientific proof that i found, all there is customer reviews from sites like amazon etc, and other forums regarding other products, dyi forums etc etc.

And so far what i have found is pretty convincing, at least concerning this specific product. But i dont wanna shell out more than 100usd for a PSU.

However what could explain it is, that cleaner and more stable voltage the more linear is the amplification.
There is a simple way to prove there are audible differences. Until you do such a test, your claims are worthless.
 

Veri

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#56
Look, i make an example.

You can buy the Burson Fun audio amp, you can swap the OP amps, you will get better sound with different OP amps, the stock amps aren't that good. But you can also use OP amps that make the sounds more transparent and others more "tubey".

Same goes with the 2nd version of the Asus, the STX II, you can also swap the OP amps, a few are included when you buy them, and it will make a difference soundwise.

So idk why according to this forum here 3 to 4 audio devices can't sound different.
op-amps?
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ng-replacing-op-amps-in-topping-d10-dac.4576/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...amps-in-gustard-h20-headphone-amplifier.7407/

Differences are way too small to be audible. If they are audible, it means the opamp is artifacting because it is not the right op-amp for the design! Leave the implementation to the engineers....
 

solderdude

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#57
Guys ... @Nobunaga doesn't want to debate the 'audibility issues' as he is convinced there (like so many others) is a huge gap between audio and electronics/measurements.
He just wants recommendations for cheap LPS. He asks here because we appreciate cheap gear. His audio info he finds elsewhere and trusts that more.

THIS one (but is a bit over budget) can be used to power a LOT of devices.
 
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#58
If you don't need more than 3A or so, for similar or less money than many of these "boutique" audiophile LPS, you can buy a Siglent SPD3303X-E which would give you two fully programmable channels and a third with several selectable presets.

I haven't seen any Amir-quality measurements on this unit, but I have a high level of confidence that it would perform more than adequately.
 
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#59
I love the BS on that web site. Someone must be making a career of spewing crap. Grab your hip boots, friends:

Signal current, no matter how well it is treated by the phono stage, must negotiate the inner workings of the power supply and return to its origin. Knowing that origin and how it gets back to it is crucial in understanding how best the micro-signal current involved with moving coil, returns to its origin with the least possible disturbance.

The Enigma solution was to lower the dissipation factor, improving dielectric absorption (similar to PTFE and polypropylene) for greater frequency stability such that all frequencies of signal current are treated more equally. And additionally: fine tuning its Kelvin paths and giving it a new DC cord and lockable outlet.
 
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