Looking for a DAC/Streamer with these specs

[AdamG]

I would like the dac to be more good, better SINAD mark.

‘If you pair it with coax/opt digital out to a Schiit Modi 3+. You get a streamer that can unfold MQA when listening to Tidal or bypass the internal DAC to the Modi for better DAC for Amazon HD and Qobuz. Works good this way. I don’t know another streaming MQA DAC in this price range.

 

[Jimbob54]

Chromecast is for listening to youtube audio? is that possible with the TV off?

Chromecast is a protocol for streaming audio and video or both. Audio devices that are cast compatible can receive a range of audio only file types. AV cast compatible devices can receive a range of audio and video formats. It's not limited to Google owned content platforms.

 

[win]

- DAC usb
- streamer
- tidal and spotify compatible
- bluetooth 5
- rca out
- toslink out
- MQA (desirable, not mandatory)


I am looking for something impossible?
the closest thing is the matrix element x, but it's missing a few things.

what from that list does the minidsp shd not cover?

 

[AdamG]

what from that list does the minidsp shd not cover?

Does not look to be tidal/Spotify compatible.
Does not have MQA.
Twice the price.

 

[win]

If the price is prohibitive it's moot anyway, but I believe volumio supports tidal and Spotify, no?

requiring mqa will definitely limit your options. Also, combining streamer with dac might be limiting if you ever want to do EQ/room correction.

 

[cronos]

perhaps the best option is Gustard X16 + Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra.
What do you think of this combination of 2 devices?
the price is cheap.

Stream Box is compatible with spotify and tidal connect? bt 5.0?

 

[Frio]

Maybe but since you considered bluetooth, I have my doubts that you need those mqa or tidal Hifi features.

 

[Sukie]

perhaps the best option is Gustard X16 + Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra.
What do you think of this combination of 2 devices?
the price is cheap.

Stream Box is compatible with spotify and tidal connect? bt 5.0?

I always manage to confuse myself over MQA (Qobuz user rather than Tidal). But as long as you've got a full decoding MQA DAC, which the X16 is, then all you need to do is pass a bitperfect stream to the DAC. The S2 does this, but so do a number fo streamers, starting as cheaply as an RPi running Volumio.

If you use Tidal you might want to consider what streamers use Tidal Connect. I know that Volumio are implementing this. It's also coming to the Cambridge CXN v2. @Glasvegas has a keen interest in Tidal Connect, so they might chip in.

 

[cronos]

I always manage to confuse myself over MQA (Qobuz user rather than Tidal). But as long as you've got a full decoding MQA DAC, which the X16 is, then all you need to do is pass a bitperfect stream to the DAC. The S2 does this, but so do a number fo streamers, starting as cheaply as an RPi running Volumio.

If you use Tidal you might want to consider what streamers use Tidal Connect. I know that Volumio are implementing this. It's also coming to the Cambridge CXN v2. @Glasvegas has a keen interest in Tidal Connect, so they might chip in.

Thank you very much for the reply!
Let me see if I got this right (my english is basic).
Is it the same (in sound quality) to use a RPi (30€) as an S2 (700€)?

With an RPi, can I use Tidal Connect or Spotify Connect? Is this compatibility directly dependent on installing the Volumio software on RPi?

If I buy matrix element X, is it compatible with Tidal Connect and Spotify Connect?

With matrix element X, can I use the rear USB connection to connect a streamer like RPi?

Is MQA certification required only for the DAC? or is it also necessary for the streamer device?

 

[Sukie]

Let me see if I got this right.
Is it the same (in sound quality) to use a RPi as an S2?

Yes.

With an RPi, can I use Tidal Connect or Spotify Connect? Is this compatibility directly dependent on installing the Volumio software on RPi?

Spotify Connect is available now on a whole range of RPi configurations (Volumio, Moode, Ropieee and others). Tidal Connect isn't available on any, at present. I'm almost certain that Volumio will be the first to offer it, but you will need the additional MyVolumio subscription.

Tidal is available via RPis. With a full MQA DAC it should be pretty easy to achieve full MQA unfolding. Again, I don't use Tidal, so others might comment further.

If I buy matrix element X, is it compatible with Tidal Connect and Spotify Connect?

You're into a much more expensive category now and out of my price range. You can certainly stream Tidal with the Element X, but not Tidal Connect as yet. Don't know about Spotify.

Is MQA certification required only for the DAC? or is it also necessary for the streamer device?

In one sense, only for the DAC. If, however, you don't have an MQA DAC, you would need a streamer that could handle the 1st unfold done on MQA by source software. But if you're getting something like the X16 then you would avoid the added complication of worrying about 1st and 2nd unfolds - your DAC would do the whole lot.

 

[Jimbob54]

In one sense, only for the DAC. If, however, you don't have an MQA DAC, you would need a streamer that could handle the 1st unfold done on MQA by source software. But if you're getting something like the X16 then you would avoid the added complication of worrying about 1st and 2nd unfolds - your DAC would do the whole lot.

Are you 100% on that about the streaming device not needing to be MQA certified to pass through to a full MQA decoder? I dont know different by the way, I just generally understood that all parts in the chain before the unfold/ decode had to be paid up to MQA too. So the Blusound Node 2i is, and can pass through MQA signal to an external DAC to decode if you select it so, but I didnt think, for example, the Yamaha WXC could do the same?

I may be very wrong.

 

[Frio]

Something like loxje d50 could work as well if you combine it with a chromecast dongle.

 

[Sukie]

Are you 100% on that about the streaming device not needing to be MQA certified to pass through to a full MQA decoder?

I'm treading on thin ice because I've got no concrete experience of this (shout out to seasoned MQA users).

As far as I understand it, you only need a bitperfect stream to reach a full decoding MQA DAC. The DAC will then perform a full unfold. Any software capacity to perform the 1st unfold is therefore not used.

The issue of MQA supported devices all the way through the chain only refers, as I understand it, to the business of the 1st unfold. Therefore it only becomes relevant when using a non-MQA DAC. For example, McConnect app (Android or iOS) will perform the 1st unfold as UpNP source. But in order for this to get to a non-MQA DAC it needs to go to a UPnP renderer (e.g. Moode or Volumio as RPi examples). If these renderers don't support MQA (and, again as far as I know, they don't) then the 1st unfold becomes redundant and you only get a redbook stream to the DAC.

Needless to say, with all my caveats, I am very happy to be corrected.

 

[Jimbob54]

I'm treading on thin ice because I've got no concrete experience of this (shout out to seasoned MQA users).

As far as I understand it, you only need a bitperfect stream to reach a full decoding MQA DAC. The DAC will then perform a full unfold. Any software capacity to perform the 1st unfold is therefore not used.

The issue of MQA supported devices all the way through the chain only refers, as I understand it, to the business of the 1st unfold. Therefore it only becomes relevant when using a non-MQA DAC. For example, McConnect app (Android or iOS) will perform the 1st unfold as UpNP source. But in order for this to get to a non-MQA DAC it needs to go to a UPnP renderer (e.g. Moode or Volumio as RPi examples). If these renderers don't support MQA (and, again as far as I know, they don't) then the 1st unfold becomes redundant and you only get a redbook stream to the DAC.

Needless to say, with all my caveats, I am very happy to be corrected.

Actually, thinking about it I do have a specific example . but this may be a hardware limitation/ software issue more than an MQA issue.

My CXN v2 always has had tidal built in. Not chromecast from the tidal app on my phone, just the ability to stream tidal using just the device. It wont receive Tidal Masters (MQA) so therefore will not pass thru to my M500 which is MQA fully capable. It is more than happy to pass thru hi res PCM and DSD to the M500 though.

Anything receiving a chromecasted stream (so Tidal vis the phone app for eg) similarly cant pass MQA. So the Chromecast Audio cant pass MQA files to a DAC connected by optical.

Like I say, what of the above is limitations to my hardware more than generic MQA limitations , I dont know. But my hunch is Bob Stuart would want the streaming box manuf to pay his bill and advertise "MQA compatible" as well as the DAC manuf. at the end of the chain.

 

[Sukie]

Actually, thinking about it I do have a specific example . but this may be a hardware limitation/ software issue more than an MQA issue.

My CXN v2 always has had tidal built in. Not chromecast from the tidal app on my phone, just the ability to stream tidal using just the device. It wont receive Tidal Masters (MQA) so therefore will not pass thru to my M500 which is MQA fully capable. It is more than happy to pass thru hi res PCM and DSD to the M500 though.

Anything receiving a chromecasted stream (so Tidal vis the phone app for eg) similarly cant pass MQA. So the Chromecast Audio cant pass MQA files to a DAC connected by optical.

Like I say, what of the above is limitations to my hardware more than generic MQA limitations , I don't know. But my hunch is Bob Stuart would want the streaming box manuf to pay his bill and advertise "MQA compatible" as well as the DAC manuf. at the end of the chain.

Interesting. Whenever this issue comes up I have asked regular Tidal users whether or not bitperfect alone is enough for an MQA DAC to do its thing! The answers have always been a little bit hesitant.

Like you say, difficult to know where the limitations lie.

 

[AdamG]

OP, be careful as some information is being passed around Here is slightly misleading. a direct answer to recent questions.

Node has tidal connect and Spotify connect including the features that come with that.
Node can internally do full unfold of MQA.
Node will Not pass Fully unfolded MQA stream via digital out. Digital out bypasses the Node’s internal DAC. It is the node internal DAC that does the unfold.
Node digital out or “pass through” of Tidal to outboard DAQ can be fully unfolded, IF that outboard DAC is Full MQA capable.

‘Bluesound Node 2i offers a 30 day money back return. If you return the Node for any reason other than a warrant claim. You will be required to pay return shipping. Original shipping is on them. So low risk here. Maybe give it a try yourself to decide if it will do all you want it to.

 

[Sukie]

OP, be careful as some information is being passed around Here is slightly misleading. a direct answer to recent questions.

Node has tidal connect and Spotify connect including the features that come with that.
Node can internally do full unfold of MQA.
Node will Not pass Fully unfolded MQA stream via digital out. Digital out bypasses the Node’s internal DAC. It is the node internal DAC that does the unfold.
Node digital out or “pass through” of Tidal to outboard DAQ can be fully unfolded, IF that outboard DAC is Full MQA capable.

‘Bluesound Node 2i offers a 30 day money back return. If you return the Node for any reason other than a warrant claim. You will be required to pay return shipping. Original shipping is on them. So low risk here. Maybe give it a try yourself to decide if it will do all you want it to.

Thank you for the information, very useful and timely reminder to the OP to take my ramblings with a pinch of salt!

But it is also useful to try and figure out underlying principles in order to aid us in our purchasing decisions, particularly bearing in mind the poor measurements of the Node's DAC. I suppose my particular intertest is finding out if you can pair a cheap RPi streamer with an MQA DAC and still get full MQA unfold. This thread seems to suggest that you can.

I'm tempted to start another thread with the specific aim of finding out, with evidence from owners, of what works when it comes to MQA. After all, we are about the acquisition of knowledge as well as the acquisition of equipment. I am, however, nervous about starting any thread that discusses MQA - I would need to set strict parameters!

 

[AdamG]

Thank you for the information, very useful and timely reminder to the OP to take my ramblings with a pinch of salt!

But it is also useful to try and figure out underlying principles in order to aid us in our purchasing decisions, particularly bearing in mind the poor measurements of the Node's DAC. I suppose my particular intertest is finding out if you can pair a cheap RPi streamer with an MQA DAC and still get full MQA unfold. This thread seems to suggest that you can.

I'm tempted to start another thread with the specific aim of finding out, with evidence from owners, of what works when it comes to MQA. After all, we are about the acquisition of knowledge as well as the acquisition of equipment. I am, however, nervous about starting any thread that discusses MQA - I would need to set strict parameters!

I intended no offense of course, thank you not taking any.

Agree with your points. It is very complicated and there any many layered pitfalls. I use the Node DAC only to listen to Tidal MQA streams. Everything else I bypass the node DAQ with digital out to a Schiit Modi 3+ which has a pretty decent DAC. The node is a seamless Network Streamer and has the versatility I am looking for.

Are there better solutions? Absolutely yes. But at what cost? Can we really Hear the difference between a middle of the road DAC and a $1000+ cost one? I seriously doubt it. The distortion base levels of your speakers and Amp are most likely already higher than what the middling DAC introduces. So in the end you really can’t tell the difference in real listening environment. JMHO...

 

[Jimbob54]

Thank you for the information, very useful and timely reminder to the OP to take my ramblings with a pinch of salt!

But it is also useful to try and figure out underlying principles in order to aid us in our purchasing decisions, particularly bearing in mind the poor measurements of the Node's DAC. I suppose my particular intertest is finding out if you can pair a cheap RPi streamer with an MQA DAC and still get full MQA unfold. This thread seems to suggest that you can.

I'm tempted to start another thread with the specific aim of finding out, with evidence from owners, of what works when it comes to MQA. After all, we are about the acquisition of knowledge as well as the acquisition of equipment. I am, however, nervous about starting any thread that discusses MQA - I would need to set strict parameters!

If you do, I'd unfollow your own thread after the first couple of pages of responses

 

[Sukie]

If you do, I'd unfollow your own thread after the first couple of pages of responses

I've decided against it for that very reason. The acquisition of knowledge is important to me. I love to find out about things, about how they work, about what motivates people to do what they do... the list goes on and on. What I don't like is bickering and acrimony and every thread on MQA seems to end up heading in that direction.

One day I will buy an MQA DAC and tinker until my heart's content. I can then bore my family to the point of excruciation on an almost daily basis!