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Long speaker cables/Short ICs vs. Short Speaker Cables/Long ICs

dallasjustice

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R/L speakers:
JBL M2. Each speaker is active 2 way. So each speaker gets 2 channels.

2 DACs:
Lynx Hilo: Output impedance over balanced is 100 ohms.
Benchmark DAC3: Output impedance 50 ohms over balanced.

2amps:
Both are Benchmark AHB2. Each one outputs 2 channels; one amp outputs both channels to Right Speaker and the other amp outputs both channels to Left speaker. From Stereophile measurements:
The output impedance, including a 6' speaker cable, was a low 0.09 ohm at 20Hz and 1kHz, rising slightly to 0.22 ohm at 20kHz.
Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content...er-amplifier-measurements#FpSjXqW3LATw34Fk.99

My left speaker is about 15’ from the rack. The amps are small and don’t get very hot. I can position the amps next to speaker terminals or leave them in the rack. If I leave them in the rack, my ICs are 3’ long and speaker cable 15’ long. OTOH, I could move each amp next to each speaker terminal. That would require the ICs to be 15’ long. I could probably get a away with 1’ speaker cables in that setup.

Speaker cables are Canare 4S11 bare wire shown below. ICs are Canare starquad.
F317370C-63F7-473E-8C95-4C8FB8333EAD.jpeg


Which one is best? I found this write up but I’m still not sure. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
 
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RayDunzl

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From DAC3 manual:

upload_2018-2-25_14-2-37.png


I used twisted pair 18 awg to my panels for a while.

Then I went back to my 2 awg.

There was a tiny in-room difference at the highest frequencies (lowest impedance). Maybe just measurement error.

For speaker cable shorter/thicker is "better" for power. Mine are 5 feet.

index.php


Why did I do that? Had the materials on hand. Those are 1/2 inch nuts (13mm), for scale.

Your DSP will compensate if you change cable and re-measure and filter.

So, ???

---

I'll probably go to the star quad next time I get ambitious enough to change cable. The 2 awg is too stiff to move a speaker. It's like 19 strands of 18 awg solid.
 
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OP
dallasjustice

dallasjustice

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I use the DAC3 in 0db pad setting. So there wouldn’t be a difference in frequency response. I guess maybe shorter speaker cables would deliver more power?
 

DonH56

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My generic answer has always been long interconnects, short speaker cables, though 15' isn't really long. What matters is the output impedance of the amp and input impedance of the speakers. Direct-drive (active) systems often more tolerant because the crossover is a big player in a conventional speaker's impedance. They are usually designed assuming a low-Z amp (nearly ideal voltage source), and of course there is cabinet and driver resonance, so FR can vary a bit with the amp. Source output impedance is usually much lower than the input impedance of the amp and cable parasitics don't really come into play until the cables are really, really long and even then what you get is mostly a little HF rolloff. Long speaker cables can change the frequency response over the entire audio band.

Personally given your system I'd move the amps and route the interconnects over. I probably would not hear any difference, am just anal at times.

FWIWFM - Don
 

RayDunzl

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I guess maybe shorter speaker cables would deliver more power?

Yes, but not much.

Run a test 60 hz test tone.

Put a voltmeter across the speaker/amp ends of the cable.

Observe loss.
 

Blumlein 88

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Actually with no more distance than that, with adequate speaker cables I don't think there will be difference. However, being persnickety about maximum signal transfer fidelity, short speaker cables and long interconnects is the way to go. Actual real potential loss or change in the signal will be greater with longer speaker cables than with longer interconnects.

EDIT: apparently a consensus between Ray and Don and myself. So maybe I am right after all. :D
 

RayDunzl

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RayDunzl

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Just for grins, someday, since the tweeter is protected (per your prior post), how about a raw (no crossover, no filter, full range to both drivers at a watt or two) measurement of the M2 speaker cabs themselves?
 
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RayDunzl

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The thing I notice is you have used green speaker cables that are almost the exact shade as the CD Stoplight pen. You didn't think we would notice? You tweaker!

upload_2018-2-25_14-33-29.png


It comes in various colors.

We used Red, Blue, and Green - Battery, Ground, Earth... Tip, Ring, Sleeve.

Somehow some green came home with me one day.

I have a nice set of Yellow 12 awg solid Ethernet coaxial distribution cables that came out of the ceiling at at the office one day. NEC branded.

I wish I'd kept some 500mcm but it was too valuable not to strip and recycle. About a dollar fifty a foot at the time.

wire.jpg


Too bad I don't have a picture of the Pinto loaded up with a few hundred pounds of that all stripped and shiny.

.
 
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Soniclife

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Probably a dumb question, can you not move the Dac and use a long digital cable?
 

NorthSky

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cjf

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Audiophile Status Points Tally:

Chinese Cooper Speaker Wire Connectors = -1 Audiophile Status Point
Bog Standard Grey Power Cord = -1 Audiophile Status Point
Baby Shit Green 2awg Speaker Wire = Priceless + 10 Audiophile Status Points

:p:)
 

Sal1950

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The thing I notice is you have used green speaker cables that are almost the exact shade as the CD Stoplight pen. You didn't think we would notice? You tweaker!
Ray still uses the Stoplight pen. Meet up with him at a HiFi club meeting and he brought some demo music CD's and I saw the green edges. Wanted me to sign a non-disclosure agreement but I refused. :p
 

Wombat

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In terms of the line input/out put impedance at line level the interconnects are dependant more on noise rejection than R, Xc and Xl unless values are extreme. Simple wire loudspeaker cables(usually) only contribute attenuation - mild if gauge is considered. Horses for courses. Don't over-think it.
 
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restorer-john

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...he brought some demo music CD's and I saw the green edges...

Often I find a bunch of what would have been 'audiophile approved' discs when hunting for CDs (must be Ray's cast offs..) and quite often they have been attacked with the dreaded green stoplight pen.

A white rag, some patience and methylated spirits soon returns them to as new. There's been some scams in the HiFi world, but that one is up there with the best IMO.
 
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