Long, odd room

[OzarkCDN]

Hi all - newbie here and hope this is an appropriate forum. I have an odd-shaped, long, narrow-ish room where I'm looking for a more appropriate speaker and would love some guidance where to start evaluating different options. Spousal compliance dictates the general-ish place where the tv / speakers will be... although I've been moving them outboard from the fireplace when she's not around... the one measurement I'm missing is that the couch is about 12' back from the front of the TV screen / speaker fronts.

Just dipping my toes into the waters and certainly happy to learn and find out how to equip myself better in this hobby.

 

[Snoochers]

It's a big space so good sound would require some pretty powerful low-end drivers (subs). The placement of the speakers is tricky. I wouldn't want to be moving speakers all the time and they're currently a bit too close together. Mounting them on the far walls also sounds a bit extreme?

 

[LTig]

Well, for good imaging speakers and listening position should form an equilateral triangle. If you can live with moving speakers that's probably the best choice. You could put tiny markers on the floor where the sound is best.

If the listening position is fix start with placing the speakers on two lines at 30 degree left and right and vary the distance. Check where the sound is best, or better invest in a Umik1 measurement microphone and get the free REW software.

 

[Hipper]

Welcome to ASR.

Is your intention to listen to music and films? In stereo or multi channel/surround sound?

There are different types of speakers which can behave in different ways. For example 'electrostats' are called dipole speakers and send sound equally out the back and front. That can be a good or bad thing in different circumstances.

You could have conventional stereo, stereo with subwoofers, or multi channel and surround sound. For listening to music there are processors that convert stereo to multi-channel.

On speaker placement, regardless of the fact that you may be limited in your choices, I would still suggest you try to find the best location. You could do that with your existing speakers. You might be surprised how good they can sound. You could, for example, try placing them either side of what I assume is the chimney. Moving your speaker and listening seat (your sofa) positions are free except for your time and effort and whilst they are just the start it can have quite a big effect.

The really keen types (like me!) listen to music, ideally in a dedicated room, using careful positioning, room treatment (bass traps etc.), DSP or EQ, and perhaps sub woofers, and to get everything just right we use software and a measuring microphone. It's complicated, takes quite a bit of learning, and a lot of time (it's taken me eighteen years to get to where I am now and I'm content!). Of course this is not for everyone and so compromises are made.

A couple of things I'd like to point out regarding your sofa and foot stools: they're made of leather which can be reflective; and it's asymmetric - the sound from the right speaker will behave differently to the sound from the left and so mess up the stereo image a bit. You could test this by covering them with a throw or blanket and hearing if it makes any difference.

 

[OzarkCDN]

Thank you all… been a lurker for some time! My priority is 2 channel (might consider 2.1 if a better option here) music listening. I actually now have The speakers mounted on wood planks that make them quite easy to slide around so placement is not as big of an issue. Already have the umik1 on order and will read the related threads for use with REW. Since it’s a directional mic (IRC) that might help me to consider speaker toe-in angles / optimal placement for this odd space!

 

[LTig]

Already have the umik1 on order and will read the related threads for use with REW. Since it’s a directional mic (IRC) that might help me to consider speaker toe-in angles / optimal placement for this odd space!

Umik 1 is nondirectional. I recommend the moving microphone method.

 

[OzarkCDN]

Welcome to ASR.

Is your intention to listen to music and films? In stereo or multi channel/surround sound?

There are different types of speakers which can behave in different ways. For example 'electrostats' are called dipole speakers and send sound equally out the back and front. That can be a good or bad thing in different circumstances.

You could have conventional stereo, stereo with subwoofers, or multi channel and surround sound. For listening to music there are processors that convert stereo to multi-channel.

On speaker placement, regardless of the fact that you may be limited in your choices, I would still suggest you try to find the best location. You could do that with your existing speakers. You might be surprised how good they can sound. You could, for example, try placing them either side of what I assume is the chimney. Moving your speaker and listening seat (your sofa) positions are free except for your time and effort and whilst they are just the start it can have quite a big effect.

The really keen types (like me!) listen to music, ideally in a dedicated room, using careful positioning, room treatment (bass traps etc.), DSP or EQ, and perhaps sub woofers, and to get everything just right we use software and a measuring microphone. It's complicated, takes quite a bit of learning, and a lot of time (it's taken me eighteen years to get to where I am now and I'm content!). Of course this is not for everyone and so compromises are made.

A couple of things I'd like to point out regarding your sofa and foot stools: they're made of leather which can be reflective; and it's asymmetric - the sound from the right speaker will behave differently to the sound from the left and so mess up the stereo image a bit. You could test this by covering them with a throw or blanket and hearing if it makes any difference.

Sorry for the late reply to your response - but it's been a bit hectic. Unfortunately (or fortunately because nobody was home!) we had a lightening strike that fried several pieces of equipment and long story short, I have a $8000 usd budget to replace this system setup, so I have a fresh start.

If I've been understanding correctly - I was looking to have one full range tower to handle audio for this room, but that might have been asking too much? Does the DSP help balance the frequencies / balance between smaller two-way and sub speakers?

Considering starting over with a room like this - care to throw any suggestions for a new system? On the other side of the wall is a LP12, and then there's a hookup for the kid's xbox and tv... so will need some kind of av preamp or integrated to connect the items to the amp.

 

[OzarkCDN]

Are there certain characteristics of speaker measurements that I should be looking at for speakers for this room? It seems logical that smaller speakers should correlate with making enough spl's for a smaller room.. but is there a better 'measurement' besides big speaker = big room?

 

[Duke]

Thank you for providing the photo with dimensions shown.

In my opinion yes you will need "big speakers", which can also mean "fairly high-output small speakers + protective high-pass filter + sub(s)". As far as specific measurements to look for... my suggestion would be that you work with a good dealer, as imo his experience is going to be worth more than manufacturer's specifications in this case.

Unfortunately I think the fireplace is going to be an obstacle to getting good soundstage depth with the configuration shown in the photo.

Are you planning to include a center channel speaker? If you use the fireplace, is the radiant heat an issue for the speakers?

 

[Elitzur–Vaidman]

A pair of JBL 580s would fit nicely under your TV and should be able to fill your room well.

 

[Sokel]

Thank you for providing the photo with dimensions shown.

In my opinion yes you will need "big speakers",

I have the same opinion,but where to put them?

 

[Elitzur–Vaidman]

I have the same opinion,but where to put them?

IMO JBL 580s where his current speakers are. Just put them on something slidable so OP can pull them outwards when needed (OP indicated they don't mind sliding their speakers).

 

[OzarkCDN]

Thank you for providing the photo with dimensions shown.

In my opinion yes you will need "big speakers", which can also mean "fairly high-output small speakers + protective high-pass filter + sub(s)". As far as specific measurements to look for... my suggestion would be that you work with a good dealer, as imo his experience is going to be worth more than manufacturer's specifications in this case.

Unfortunately I think the fireplace is going to be an obstacle to getting good soundstage depth with the configuration shown in the photo.

Are you planning to include a center channel speaker? If you use the fireplace, is the radiant heat an issue for the speakers?

I would love to find a dealer to work with... Unfortunately the only game in town is Best Buy. Not sure they'll be better than dealing online. We don't use the fireplace, good catch! Since I'm having to start over, I'm able to consider a 2.1 setup; is this where a dsp is needed to split the signal?

 

[Steven Holt]

this looks to me like a very acoustically challenged environment. before u do anything I strongly suggest carpeting that floor and heavy curtains over the window. a few acoustic panels on the walls wouldn't hurt. otherwise, yr gonna have standing waves all over the place. hope this helps.

 

[Sokel]

IMO JBL 580s where his current speakers are. Just put them on something slidable so OP can pull them outwards when needed (OP indicated they don't mind sliding their speakers).

Agreed,but 580's are not big speakers.Even bigger speakers that 580 aren't big speakers.
These might work in terms of usable space.

 

[Peluvius]

Your room is indeed very difficult. Are there any other options in terms of couch/TV placement? If not, I would be tempted to close one of those corridors (putting one speaker in a corner) and moving everything across a bit. The open spaces either side are really challenging.

 

[Duke]

We don't use the fireplace, good catch!

Good! I grew up in a house with a fireplace, and we needed it (very old house - no central heating) during the winter. We had a metal grate around the fireplace which kept anything not metal a couple of to the side, but we still scorched the paint on the wooden mantle above the fireplace.

I would love to find a dealer to work with... Unfortunately the only game in town is Best Buy.

Whereabouts are you located? Your username is sending mixed messages...

Since I'm having to start over, I'm able to consider a 2.1 setup

Given that your priority is two-channel (post #5), imo concentrating your budget on two good speakers (or two smaller speakers + sub) makes sense, assuming everyone in your family has good hearing in both ears. What I'm going to suggest should give a pretty good center image for anyone anywhere on the couch, as long as they do not have a significant hearing imbalance. (If you DO need a center-channel speaker, stick with the same manufacturer as the left and right speakers to give you the best chance of getting good timbre matching.)

I suggest speakers which have good radiation pattern control, positioned where your speakers are, and toed-in aggressively such that their axes criss-cross in front of the listening position. The speakers in this photo have 45 degrees of toe-in built-in; obviously that detail is not necessary:

Underneath the grill is a 12" midwoofer and a rectangular horn with a 90-degree-wide pattern in the horizontal plane. They are crossed over where their patterns match in the horiziontal plane (about 1.3 kHz). From the location where the photo was taken the listener is much more on-axis of the far speaker, and is well off-axis of the near speaker. The far speaker is louder at the frequencies we get our image localization cues from, and this offsets the earlier arrival time of the near speaker, giving us a pretty good soundstage across a wide seating area. Dialogue is on-screen from throughout the seating area, though presumably not as firmly anchored as with a dedicated center channel speaker. The owner really likes good music videos so he sold his (fairly expensive) center-channel speaker because timbre and image depth are better with just the two speakers in phantom center mode.

The speaker in the photo has been discontinued and probably takes up too much space for your situation anyway, but illustrates the idea. I think that approximately the same end result can theoretically be accomplished in your room, even though the speaker separation would be less.

 

[OzarkCDN]

Good! I grew up in a house with a fireplace, and we needed it (very old house - no central heating) during the winter. We had a metal grate around the fireplace which kept anything not metal a couple of to the side, but we still scorched the paint on the wooden mantle above the fireplace.



Whereabouts are you located? Your username is sending mixed messages...

Springfield, MO. Canadian relocated to the center of the US.

Normally, we’d at least have a rug down on the floor….when we’re not potty training a new puppy! I might be able to figure out something for panels on the right side of the picture, but there is a window there with blinds on the left side of the picture is a challenge.

 

[Maginness]

I have a similar challenging room. It's an additional deweling unit. It's set up as a one bedroom guest unit or as an AirBnB. I currently use the living room part for my home office and we leave the unit set up for guests. Anyways that all adds up to little placement flexibility, needing smaller sized equipment, and not much room treatment.

After a bunch of trying things this is what worked for me for music. Nice stand mount speakers, MiniDSP Flex, and two small subs (SVS 3000 Micros).

The room correction from the MiniDSP helps a lot. I found placing one sub up front and one adjacent to my listening position really dialed in bass response. The Micro subs are really small and easy to place. The room had a big bass null/dip/mode that DSP didn't really sort out. A second sub did. I like to mess with things and tweek and fiddle, the current set up I've left alone for months now (personal record).

I do have a second speaker position I use. Brings the speakers more into the room, sounds better, and I have a second DSP set up saved for this position. Rarely use it but it's nice when I have some new music to listen to or some time to play thru some favorites.

 

[OzarkCDN]

When I searched, Google seemed to point me to car audio for dsp. Is it like the old Audisee (sp?) system?