Living With Linkwitz

[Lorenzo74]

@suttondesign could you do a noise check with the MiniDSP 2x4 and the Nord amp? Not necessary to get the filters exactly right on the 2x4.

if you like... I own DDRC 2x4HD and my poor ears complains about everything but the DAC. I measured my system with REW in many conditions and speakers distortion is an order of magnitude higher than DAC+Amp THD. Why bother?
Of course would be nice to have Tambaqui or Co, over the rack to show to friends but is really there where extra $ payback?
I would suggest room treatments (real and by dsp) as those create more evindence to my Freq-impulse response both in REW and to my low accurate ears.

I can support with data if of interest...

my Best
Lorenzo

 

[lashto]

if you like... I own DDRC 2x4HD and my poor ears complains about everything but the DAC. I measured my system with REW in many conditions and speakers distortion is an order of magnitude higher than DAC+Amp THD. Why bother?

Because the distortion of DAC/AMP/Speakers/etc is additive.
That's one reason why you can (sometimes) hear diffs between DACs/AMPs/etc through speakers that distort orders of magnitude more.
(not saying that the miniDSP DAC is bad and/or audible, haven't heard that one)

 

[Lorenzo74]

Because the distortion of DAC/AMP/Speakers/etc is additive.
That's one reason why you can (sometimes) hear diffs between DACs/AMPs/etc through speakers that distort orders of magnitude more.
(not saying that the miniDSP DAC is bad and/or audible, haven't heard that one)

difficult to agree unless you compare very bad dac+amp with THD of same figures as Speakers...

it make no sense to improve DAC+AMP THD example from 0.1% to 0.0001% if at the end your signal is converted to sound pressure with a physical transducer speaker that introduce 0.5% THD... and the untreated room "color" it with additional uncontrolled reflections.
much better investing that value in room treatment addressing early reflections below 20ms!
hope this clarify my (ironic) stance

 

[lashto]

difficult to agree unless you compare very bad dac+amp with THD of same figures as Speakers...

it make no sense to improve DAC+AMP THD example from 0.1% to 0.0001% if at the end your signal is converted to sound pressure with a physical transducer speaker that introduce 0.5% THD... and the untreated room "color" it with additional uncontrolled reflections.
much better investing that value in room treatment addressing early reflections below 20ms!
hope this clarify my (ironic) stance

of course it makes sense, any improvement does. Whether it's worth or not, that's a personal wallet-decision for each of us.

Otherwise, "it makes no sense" to even talk about anything other than speakers and rooms. And the whole dac/amp/etc industry should've stopped ~1970 when they reached measurement-numbers orders of magnitude better than speakers. Actually, should've stopped at turntables/tape/cassettes cause even those have orders of magnitude better distortion than speakers.

Generally, yes you are right that way too many people are way too obsessed with SINAD&co for dacs/amps/etc. But how is the opposite, none-of-that-matters extreme better?!

 

[Lorenzo74]

of course it makes sense, any improvement does. Whether it's worth or not, that's a personal wallet-decision for each of us.

Otherwise, "it makes no sense" to even talk about anything other than speakers and rooms. And the whole dac/amp/etc industry should've stopped ~1970 when they reached measurement-numbers orders of magnitude better than speakers. Actually, should've stopped at turntables/tape/cassettes cause even those have orders of magnitude better distortion than speakers.

Generally, yes you are right that way too many people are way too obsessed with SINAD&co for dacs/amps/etc. But how is the opposite, none-of-that-matters extreme better?!

Nobody say the second.
You said.
My opinion is the first you nicely summarized, someone is obsessed by Sinad in a world (not the 70s!) where a class d chip amp today is way better than what happen after it.
(ex tpa3255... and friends)
Take care.
My Best
Lorenzo

 

[richard12511]

Otherwise, "it makes no sense" to even talk about anything other than speakers and rooms.

I mean, that is kinda my view *shrug*. I don't read any of the DAC or amp reviews. I would also add DSP, and also to make sure your amp has enough power for your listening habits. If your lamp doesn't have enough power to satisfy the SPLs you prefer, then a more powerful amp will improve the sound you hear. If your amp has enough power, though, speakers + rooms + DSP really are 99% of the equation.

And the whole dac/amp/etc industry should've stopped ~1970 when they reached measurement-numbers orders of magnitude better than speakers. Actually, should've stopped at turntables/tape/cassettes cause even those have orders of magnitude better distortion than speakers.

Why should the industry stop if the industry is still making money? It doesn't matter if different amps or dacs produce any audible benefit at all. What matters is that people think they do, and thus they keep purchasing them.

 

[Lorenzo74]

I mean, that is kinda my view *shrug*. I don't read any of the DAC or amp reviews. I would also add DSP, and also to make sure your amp has enough power for your listening habits. If your lamp doesn't have enough power to satisfy the SPLs you prefer, then a more powerful amp will improve the sound you hear. If your amp has enough power, though, speakers + rooms + DSP really are 99% of the equation.


Why should the industry stop if the industry is still making money? It doesn't matter if different amps or dacs produce any audible benefit at all. What matters is that people think they do, and thus they keep purchasing them.

I return you the “like”.
I fully ageee with you. I’m impressed when I see the step response and freq response (no smoothed) of my system at the listening position.
then I measure dac and amp and what I have is a perfect triangle step and super flat frequency response...
And someone still evaluate subjectively, at home, cables and other stuff...claiming to hear evident differences!... WoW

 

[Burning Sounds]

I just came across this quote from Jack Vad, San Francisco Symphony producer and engineer, on Dr Frank Brenner's Linkwitz site. Full quote is here:

https://www.linkwitz.com/ovation#c281

.....both the LXmini and LX521 are used for the final production stage mix qualification of all San Francisco Symphony SACD download releases that I’ve produced during the last three years; they are an indispensable tool.