Live vs Reproduced Sound - your thoughts?

[Ghostofmerlin]

I've graduated from my "live music" phase when I was going to tons of concerts by quite a few years now, and I went to a lot. The sound quality on many of them was hit and miss, in my opinion. Generally my opinion is that a studio version is a nice curated version of the song, optimized for whatever system it might be played on. Different venues have different capabilities and even bands I've seen a lot, like the Allman Brothers, seem to have different quality depending on where I saw them. Only a few times have a seen a truly bad live show, but it was generally somewhere dumb like a state fair. Orchestral situations seem to be totally different. You're in a venue designed to project the music and aren't dependent on amplification as much. My kids play viola and cello and so get to see a lot of these, even if very amateur productions (their orchestras are quite good, though, much better than "band" when I was a kid playing percussion).

I am a rank amateur when it comes to audio stuff, and therefore have rank amateur thoughts and opinions. It seems as if it would be a difficult proposition to truly replicate a symphony sound with a stereo set of speakers and a couple of subs. You're talking about 50-100 points of sound coming from the symphony and I think this is a big ask of systems, even very big and expensive ones. Live rock music seems like it might be easier to replicate, but even then you're missing the vibe of the concert. Probably depends a lot on the quality of the recording as well. I listen to the Cornell '77 Dead album a lot, not because I necessarily love the Dead, but something about the recording is amazing.

 

[mpw]

I've graduated from my "live music" phase when I was going to tons of concerts by quite a few years now, and I went to a lot. The sound quality on many of them was hit and miss, in my opinion. Generally my opinion is that a studio version is a nice curated version of the song, optimized for whatever system it might be played on. Different venues have different capabilities and even bands I've seen a lot, like the Allman Brothers, seem to have different quality depending on where I saw them. Only a few times have a seen a truly bad live show, but it was generally somewhere dumb like a state fair. Orchestral situations seem to be totally different. You're in a venue designed to project the music and aren't dependent on amplification as much. My kids play viola and cello and so get to see a lot of these, even if very amateur productions (their orchestras are quite good, though, much better than "band" when I was a kid playing percussion).

I am a rank amateur when it comes to audio stuff, and therefore have rank amateur thoughts and opinions. It seems as if it would be a difficult proposition to truly replicate a symphony sound with a stereo set of speakers and a couple of subs. You're talking about 50-100 points of sound coming from the symphony and I think this is a big ask of systems, even very big and expensive ones. Live rock music seems like it might be easier to replicate, but even then you're missing the vibe of the concert. Probably depends a lot on the quality of the recording as well. I listen to the Cornell '77 Dead album a lot, not because I necessarily love the Dead, but something about the recording is amazing.

I saw the 'Dead live a few times. The sound was amazing I am not a 'Dead head' by any means. The Pat Metheny Group had a wonderful sound as well, Santana wow, Chicago pristine sound, The Who mind blowing sound.

 

[Ghostofmerlin]

I saw the 'Dead live a few times. The sound was amazing I am not a 'Dead head' by any means. The Pat Metheny Group had a wonderful sound as well, Santana wow, Chicago pristine sound, The Who mind blowing sound.

I saw the Dead several times. I might be stretching the truth a little if I say that I truly remember it well.....

 

[mpw]

I saw the Dead several times. I might be stretching the truth a little if I say that I truly remember it well.....

When I save them the Dead had that huge Wall of Sound speaker system. I save them in mid to late 70's I know that whole place was reeking with Pot ! I have seen the 'Dead and Company' not nearly as interesting as the old Dead lineup.

 

[Ghostofmerlin]

When I save them the Dead had that huge Wall of Sound speaker system. I save them in mid to late 70's I know that whole place was reeking with Pot ! I have seen the 'Dead and Company' not nearly as interesting as the old Dead lineup.

I saw them early/mid 90s. It also reeked with pot, haha.

 

[MattHooper]

Perhaps relevant here... when I was learning to record myself playing acoustic guitar I noticed something interesting. The recordings were made in the study/music room and I used the same room and computer for post. Normally I prefer not to use headphones and use them only when needed. But I found that I disliked the sound of the recordings on the monitors and liked it with the headphones. I figured it's because with the monitors I was listening to the room effects doubled.

That was the case with some of my own recordings as well, such as my recording of an acoustic guitar in my two channel listening room, between my speakers. And then I would play it back in the same room on my two channel speakers and compared to the real thing (e.g. having a friend playing the guitar between the speakers).

In my case, I did not find the room doubling effect a problem at all. I could hear a very slight room doubling effect, but it was very minor the overall effect was actually intensely realistic. I remember that Floyd Toole commented on this issue I believe in a thread in which I brought this up (so I can’t remember if he was directly addressing my post). And if I recall correctly the room doubling effect wouldn’t be a big issue.

 

[mpw]

That was the case with some of my own recordings as well, such as my recording of an acoustic guitar in my two channel listening room, between my speakers. And then I would play it back in the same room on my two channel speakers and compared to the real thing (e.g. having a friend playing the guitar between the speakers).

In my case, I did not find the room doubling effect a problem at all. I could hear a very slight room doubling effect, but it was very minor the overall effect was actually intensely realistic. I remember that Floyd Toole commented on this issue I believe in a thread in which I brought this up (so I can’t remember if he was directly addressing my post). And if I recall correctly the room doubling effect wouldn’t be a big issue.

Interesting. I have done lots of home recording, usedheadphones when playing my parts then playback via the Monitors. Don't most studio musicians use headphones to record then listen to playback on the phones in the studio then go into the control room to listen on the monitors, always mixed the tracks via Monitors.

 

[Multicore]

Don't most studio musicians use headphones to record then listen to playback on the phones in the studio then go into the control room to listen on the monitors, always mixed the tracks via Monitors.

Yes. So there are two different rooms, one for recording and the other for listening. And in a decent recording studio they will be acoustically rather different. So a room doubling effect wouldn't come into it.

The situation arose for me specifically because I used the same room for both. So the mics pick up the instrument sound as modified by the room and then later when I play that back I hear that room-modified mic signal come back through the similar room modifications. Additional factors for me is that the room is typical bedroom size and no treatment for bass modes (pictures and videos in the link I gave above). It doesn't sound good. And I am very accustomed to how it sounds.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

I saw the 'Dead live a few times. The sound was amazing I am not a 'Dead head' by any means. The Pat Metheny Group had a wonderful sound as well, Santana wow, Chicago pristine sound, The Who mind blowing sound.

I've seen all these except Chicago (ew), and I didn't find any of them to produce exemplary sound. Not blaming them, just that large venues present insuperable sound quality compromises.

 

[Neuro]

Altogether, results demonstrate that live music strengthens dynamical responses to musical rhythm within the brain, which provides a candidate neural basis for the widespread appeal of live music and theories of social bonding through music.

From lab to concert hall: effects of live performance on neural-acoustic phase-locking and engagement - PMC

Live music performances continue to captivate audiences despite widespread availability of high-quality recordings, yet the neural mechanisms underlying the experience of live music remain poorly understood. This study investigates the effect of ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Live music is preferred over the same music reproduced via loudspeakers, a preference confirmed by EEG measurements. Live music synchronizes brainwaves more closely with the music.
Intra-individual EEG synchronization is more pronounced when listening to live music. Live music fosters a stronger sense of social connectedness
Several other studies have shown that live music synchronizes brain activity and fosters social bonding among listeners to a greater extent.

The question is—what is the difference that leads to different perceptions?

JM

 

[mpw]

I've seen all these except Chicago (ew), and I didn't find any of them to produce exemplary sound. Not blaming them, just that large venues present insuperable sound quality compromises.

You didn't think that Pat Metheny group with Layle Mays sounded good, or Santana didn't sound good. Dead in their prime didn't sound good ?!

 

[Mart68]

You didn't think that Pat Metheny group with Layle Mays sounded good, or Santana didn't sound good. Dead in their prime didn't sound good ?!

PMG are well know for good live sound but some venues are beyond help especially if they have those FOH systems that hang from the ceiling. There's one here, used to be called the NEC but no doubt it's had multiple rebrands over the years. So rubbish I stopped going, even Steely Dan didn't sound good.

A friend who was a sound engineer told me that privately they admitted the PA and the auditorium (such as it was, just a big tin shed really) were a disaster but as it was one of the few really big indoor venues in the UK they still got the big name bookings.

 

[MaxBuck]

There's very little live music today that doesn't go through electronics before we hear it. Small chamber, piano and vocal concerts about sum it up. So this question seems to me to fail in almost all circumstances.

Increasingly I see amplifiers and speakers in use even for live opera and symphony.

 

[LiveTek]

Listening at home and live performances are two different things really, did audiophiles or marketing come up with the idea that they should be similar?

 

[MattHooper]

There's very little live music today that doesn't go through electronics before we hear it. Small chamber, piano and vocal concerts about sum it up. So this question seems to me to fail in almost all circumstances.

A slightly different aspect of this is also the depressing fact of how many live acts autotune their vocals. Even legacy acts (like the Eagles) who were known for their vocal process.

There’s a very popular music education YouTube channel Wings Of Pegasus in which tons of performances are analyzed to show whether they are auto tuned or not. (most of the submissions are).

I remember seeing on YouTube and also on some social media some musical families or siblings they were producing beautiful vocals and harmonies. I am very sensitive to pitch and I love good singing, so when I hear somebody singing really well, it always impresses me. And some of these videos really left me thinking “ wow those young people are talented!” But then I asked myself “ wait or even these videos, auto tuned? Like three people singing in their kitchen?”

I went to the wings of Pegasus channel and he had analyzed some of them and sure enough…sigh… all auto tune.

I hate the fact that I can’t listen to any singer these days and simply appreciate their skill without presuming they’ve been auto tuned.
Seems like I have to go back to the old school singers to appreciate that.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

You didn't think that Pat Metheny group with Layle Mays sounded good, or Santana didn't sound good. Dead in their prime didn't sound good ?!

I don't ever think the sound quality in large venues sounds good, no matter how good or bad the music is

 

[mpw]

We have a great amphitheater here in Raleigh along with a smaller venue in Downtown Raleigh - Red Hat theater. The sound quality at both are outstanding. I have gone to concerts at the Hard Rock Cafe in Hollywood Fl. nice sound as well. Maybe Stadium venues have sound quality problems. There is nothing like a live concert with great musicians.

 

[mpw]

A slightly different aspect of this is also the depressing fact of how many live acts autotune their vocals. Even legacy acts (like the Eagles) who were known for their vocal process.

There’s a very popular music education YouTube channel Wings Of Pegasus in which tons of performances are analyzed to show whether they are auto tuned or not. (most of the submissions are).

I remember seeing on YouTube and also on some social media some musical families or siblings they were producing beautiful vocals and harmonies. I am very sensitive to pitch and I love good singing, so when I hear somebody singing really well, it always impresses me. And some of these videos really left me thinking “ wow those young people are talented!” But then I asked myself “ wait or even these videos, auto tuned? Like three people singing in their kitchen?”

I went to the wings of Pegasus channel and he had analyzed some of them and sure enough…sigh… all auto tune.

I hate the fact that I can’t listen to any singer these days and simply appreciate their skill without presuming they’ve been auto tuned.
Seems like I have to go back to the old school singers to appreciate that.

Are you saying that most live concerts that we watch on YT use auto-tune for the vocals? Check out the videos on YT of the English band 'Wet-Leg' . I have listened to some recent Paul McCartney live concerts and his vocals are not as good as they once were but no auto-tuning was used just raw vocals. I think that Auto-Tuning is used in the studio a lot so we hear that on recordings that we listen to.

 

[mpw]

There's very little live music today that doesn't go through electronics before we hear it. Small chamber, piano and vocal concerts about sum it up. So this question seems to me to fail in almost all circumstances.

Increasingly I see amplifiers and speakers in use even for live opera and symphony.

The North Carolina Symphony that plays at our Downtown Raleigh concert hall uses no amplifiers and speakers pure acoustic music as 'God Intended' . Saw many concerts at the Symphony Hall in Boston same thing pure acoustic.

 

[Brian Hall]

I prefer reproduced music at my house now. It was always a lot of work in my younger days to clean up the mess after my band finished practicing and partying.