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Listening Room Build + Treatment is #1, then #2 Just Room Treatment both superior to just Room EQ

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Aug 14, 2020
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Hi, seven years ago on the 4th of July while playing a bomb of a movie (King Kong) in my townhouse basement home theater, the output of my two 15" woofers resulted in unexpected visitors on my deck knocking at my sliding doors. Initially, the lights shining through my curtains were thought to be flashes from fireworks, but it wasn't. It was the cops. My neighbor had called the cops on me to turn down my music when his call to me went unanswered. Being a law-abiding and neighbor friendly neighbor, I turned off the system and never let that happen again. Instead, I cashed out some stock, had the basement completely ripped out, and built a sound-proof room specifically designed for home theater. Extreme, yes, but I'm a Home Theater/Music Audiophile who treasures the excitement, thrill and joy of visceral high quality sound and astounding visuals (initially via Epson projector, and now via Ultra Short Throw 4k Laser Projector).
My evolution towards higher fidelity began almost 5 decades ago after my aunt introduced me to an engineer who placed a speaker in a wooden horn baffle that intrigued me. Years later, in the Marines, I strolled down Stereo Street in Tokyo -- the heart of 70-80s HiFi and was amazed. I purchased Kenwood separates, a high end Teac cassette deck, Pioneer straight tracking turntable and Bose 901 Series V speakers and shipped them home where they would sit for a few years until I left the service in 1985. Later, I learned the value of buying high end used or refurbished at massive discounts. That is the #1 Audiophile Hack I can pass on.
I wish to impart some of my journey to all of you, my music loving brothers and sisters in the hope that it may enhance your experience as it has mine. With the introduction of JBL's new AV receiver line, this caught my attention: "While room equalization can help to reduce problems with listening room acoustics, it is usually far better to try to solve these problems with the room directly. Proper loudspeaker positioning, acoustic wall treatments and moving the listening position away from walls should produce far better results overall. However it may be difficult to do this in a home environment, so Room EQ is your next best choice." And the Room EQ JBL chose is Dirac Live. The point of this is that all Room EQ places a light mask over the sound by processing the signal. This is why turning off Room EQ moves one closest to the actual sound. Hopefully, one day we can measure the qualitative difference in EQ over No EQ. In any event, for those seeking to build a real home theater constructed from scratch, I provide these tips as my contribution in thanks to Amir for his tireless work and his amazing website. When ASR tops Google product searches, that tells me the entire audio industry has not only taken notice but is on notice that value = quality + price. When critics attack ASR, I just laugh. Are they choosing to be ignorant? Most of us here are the type that seek to learn and, although hard, will discard our biases when faced with the truth and embrace the truth. So, to me, ASR is the "Burning Bush" of audio. We know that numbers are important and listening is important and that, although we may lean towards numbers, we also acknowledge that none of it matters except what you think of it. And nothing's wrong with that, as long as you don't use a snake oil reason. Lastly, a friend of mine who is blind once called me up to enthusiastically share how amazing his speakers sounded, when, get this ... another friend hooked up high end speaker cables. C'est la vie.
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Wwooowww, look at that. That is awesome . The entrance to the "Cinema" is very cool.
Where you get those signs?
 
The point of this is that all Room EQ places a light mask over the sound by processing the signal. This is why turning off Room EQ moves one closest to the actual sound.

I think this overlooks the fact that the actual sound has already been processed by scores of eqs, filters and other digital signal processing in its recording, mixing and mastering.

“The actual sound” you are hearing is not “pure” in that sense. One more EQ is not going to place “a light mask over the sound”.
 
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I think this overlooks the fact that the actual sound has already been processed by scores of eqs, filters and other digital signal processing in its recording, mixing and mastering.

“The actual sound” you are hearing is not “pure” in that sense. One more EQ is not going to place “a light mask over the sound”.
Any filter can mess up your sound. It depends on the quality of the added filter and how it is used. You simply can't say "any filter or EQ is transparent and without negative effects". Some are good, some not so good. Some monitor producers even avoid DSP altogether, like ATC and Amphion. I'd rather have a good room than room correction.
 
The point of this is that all Room EQ places a light mask over the sound by processing the signal. This is why turning off Room EQ moves one closest to the actual sound. Hopefully, one day we can measure the qualitative difference in EQ over No EQ.
This sounds like typical audiophool BS to me. Three questions:
1. Have you any idea how liberally EQ is applied during audio mixing?
2. What is the (or your) definition of "a light mask over the sound"?
3. What is the (or your) definition of "moves one closest to the actual sound"?
 
Any filter can mess up your sound. It depends on the quality of the added filter and how it is used.

Exactly. Turning on an eq does not place a light mask over the sound.
You simply can't say "any filter or EQ is transparent and without negative effects".

I didn’t say that. :lol:

Some are good, some not so good. Some monitor producers even avoid DSP altogether, like ATC and Amphion. I'd rather have a good room than room correction.

Sure. And zero music recordings you have ever heard were made without EQ filters.

I’d rather have good room correction and a good room. But a good room is very hard to achieve. Especially for reducing bass nodes. There’s a reason why Trinnov is so popular in treated studios.

I own Amphion One15s btw :)
 
Exactly. Turning on an eq does not place a light mask over the sound.


I didn’t say that. :lol:



Sure. And zero music recordings you have ever heard were made without EQ filters.

I’d rather have good room correction and a good room. But a good room is very hard to achieve. Especially for reducing bass nodes. There’s a reason why Trinnov is so popular in treated studios.

I own Amphion One15s btw :)
If my budget allowed for Trinnov, why not. But US$10K (or more) buys A LOT of room improvement, which comes first for me. There are other ways to EQ too...

Have a listen to 2Ls Morten Lindberg, he does EQ by microphone positioning, and only balancing in the mix. He records in churces and concert halls, all natural reverb. He has 43 Grammy nominations for his productions. Check his EQ tips ;).

 
If my budget allowed for Trinnov, why not. But US$10K (or more) buys A LOT of room improvement, which comes first for me. There are other ways to EQ too...

Have a listen to 2Ls Morten Lindberg, he does EQ by microphone positioning, and only balancing in the mix. He records in churces and concert halls, all natural reverb. He has 43 Grammy nominations for his productions. Check his EQ tips ;).

Isn't that ironic that the Genelec monitors that he used to monitor his works are chock-full of DSP EQ, from the DSP cross-overs and EQ in the "Ones", to cardioid control in the W371A, and to GLM ;)
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Isn't that ironic that the Genelec monitors that he used to monitor his works are chock-full of DSP EQ, from the DSP cross-overs and EQ in the "Ones", to cardioid control in the W371A, and to GLM ;)
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Actually, there's a simple difference which seems to elude you. Mr. Lindberg is optimizing for his recording, this is his purpose. He wants to record the purest signal possible, no digital EQ, no digital reverb. Monitoring is secondary, even if he has top quality monitoring. So GLM is not in his signal path, only there to control monitoring. GLM is control system for the hardware DSP already present in the monitors, so adds nothing new to the monitoring path, if that's your "irony". And certainly adds nothing to his recorded signal :facepalm:. Also, consider how GLM works.

My purpose is optimal listening. I'm not against EQ, I just avoid until I need it, and keep what's coming out of my speakers as intended.
 
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