Linkwitz LX521 or JBL M2 ??

[hardisj]

Erin's Audio Corner just posted a spinorama of the M2

Here's the link to my video review. If you want to see the data and written portion, you'll have to google it.

 

[Jokerbre]

Thanks. Great review.
erinsaudiocorner

 

[Champster]

From a practical perspective, i'd build JBL M2 first. If you don't like how it sounds, it will be a whole lot easier to sell and get your money back - unlike LX521.

For what it's worth, both present a pinnacle of their design concepts and are made to satisfy even most demanding users.

ZVU is right on but you don't build the M2, you buy it. You build the LX521.4. Nevertheless, I like his point.

I own both the Linkwitz LX521.4 and the M2 (& later added the SUB18s). I agree with ZVU, go with the M2 (without the SUB18) at first. You'll love both as they are both truly at the top of current speaker design technology. Who was it that said the LX521.4 is bright. WRONG! At least not a normal, as designed, rendition of the LX521.4. If anything, the M2 is brighter than the LX521.4. Both are highly resolving. You have to be careful auditioning Linkwitz speakers. A lot of people buy the kit and then try to "improve" them with their own ideas. I've had both speakers side by side for years and love them both for different reasons. The bass on the LX plays as deep as the M2 but just not as powerfully, but at normal listening levels of about 80db, the LX is more articulate top to bottom because the dipole bass is unbelievable. The LX Soundstage is wider and deeper and imaging is better too. The M2 is more dynamic and reproduces sounds more realistically for things (out of the Compression Driver) like a sax or any horn, drum rimshot, cymbals, metal acoustic guitar strings, etc. They are scary real. Vocals (especially male) go to the LX. If I had to live with one, I'd probably, but not a slam dunk, pick the M2 and only because it is a JBL and has a huge following and nostalgia but not because it is a hands down better system.

Please know, these are very picky comments. I love both speakers and feel very fortunate to have both. If you took one away and left me with the other, I'd feel incredibly lucky to have the other. But they are both different and exceptional all at the same time. I did just visit a high end shop where they had the Magico A5s playing and I wouldn't give up either of these to get those $25k speakers.

So for investment purposes, I'd start with the M2 because it's resale value will be strong. If you love it, you'll keep it but if you don't, definitely build the LX521.4 but, be prepared, the resale value isn't very good.

 

[Manojrc]

ZVU is right on but you don't build the M2, you buy it. You build the LX521.4. Nevertheless, I like his point.

I own both the Linkwitz LX521.4 and the M2 (& later added the SUB18s). I agree with ZVU, go with the M2 (without the SUB18) at first. You'll love both as they are both truly at the top of current speaker design technology. Who was it that said the LX521.4 is bright. WRONG! At least not a normal, as designed, rendition of the LX521.4. If anything, the M2 is brighter than the LX521.4. Both are highly resolving. You have to be careful auditioning Linkwitz speakers. A lot of people buy the kit and then try to "improve" them with their own ideas. I've had both speakers side by side for years and love them both for different reasons. The bass on the LX plays as deep as the M2 but just not as powerfully, but at normal listening levels of about 80db, the LX is more articulate top to bottom because the dipole bass is unbelievable. The LX Soundstage is wider and deeper and imaging is better too. The M2 is more dynamic and reproduces sounds more realistically for things (out of the Compression Driver) like a sax or any horn, drum rimshot, cymbals, metal acoustic guitar strings, etc. They are scary real. Vocals (especially male) go to the LX. If I had to live with one, I'd probably, but not a slam dunk, pick the M2 and only because it is a JBL and has a huge following and nostalgia but not because it is a hands down better system.

Please know, these are very picky comments. I love both speakers and feel very fortunate to have both. If you took one away and left me with the other, I'd feel incredibly lucky to have the other. But they are both different and exceptional all at the same time. I did just visit a high end shop where they had the Magico A5s playing and I wouldn't give up either of these to get those $25k speakers.

So for investment purposes, I'd start with the M2 because it's resale value will be strong. If you love it, you'll keep it but if you don't, definitely build the LX521.4 but, be prepared, the resale value isn't very good.

Excellent!!! Exactly the kinda info I was looking for. Thank you…!!

 

[fluid]

So for investment purposes, I'd start with the M2 because it's resale value will be strong. If you love it, you'll keep it but if you don't, definitely build the LX521.4 but, be prepared, the resale value isn't very good.

I agree that the M2 would be much easier to sell for a good price but if you build a well finished LX521 with matching equipment of good quality and nice enclosures they can be sold for a pretty reasonable price. I sold both my original Orion and LX521.3 / 4 builds for good prices but you do need to find the right buyer.

An important thing to consider that is not often mentioned is the type of music that you like to listen to. Ultimately this is why I sold both my Linkwitz systems. If you like acoustic music, orchestral, music with space then the LX521 is amazing. All your audiophile classics sound as good as you could image. But if you grew up listening to Iron Maiden, Metallica or anything leaning in that direction and that is an important genre to you then I think you could be disappointed in comparison to a speaker like the M2.

Having both in rooms that suit them would be a nice option to have

 

[Champster]

I agree that the M2 would be much easier to sell for a good price but if you build a well finished LX521 with matching equipment of good quality and nice enclosures they can be sold for a pretty reasonable price. I sold both my original Orion and LX521.3 / 4 builds for good prices but you do need to find the right buyer.

An important thing to consider that is not often mentioned is the type of music that you like to listen to. Ultimately this is why I sold both my Linkwitz systems. If you like acoustic music, orchestral, music with space then the LX521 is amazing. All your audiophile classics sound as good as you could image. But if you grew up listening to Iron Maiden, Metallica or anything leaning in that direction and that is an important genre to you then I think you could be disappointed in comparison to a speaker like the M2.

Having both in rooms that suit them would be a nice option to have

Great points, Fluid! I completely concur with your point on recouping your investment and the use/type of music of the Linkwitz speakers. Which is another reason I keep both.

 

[abdo123]

I really hope someone makes the effort to send both the LXmini and LX521.4 to Erin for measurements. they're practically free for what they offer.

 

[Absolute]

I would like to see measurements of the more home-friendly options out there, like the JBL scl-2/4/7.
In-wall speakers would probably outperform any clever dispersion control pattern and can more easily be made wife-friendly.

Dipole speakers are hugely expensive because they claim massive amounts of real-estate to perform well.

 

[Burning Sounds]

I would like to see measurements of the more home-friendly options out there, like the JBL scl-2/4/7.
In-wall speakers would probably outperform any clever dispersion control pattern and can more easily be made wife-friendly.

Dipole speakers are hugely expensive because they claim massive amounts of real-estate to perform well.

You're generalizing - LX521s need space, LXMini's don't because the upper driver's rear wave is attenuated.

 

[Champster]

I really hope someone makes the effort to send both the LXmini and LX521.4 to Erin for measurements. they're practically free for what they offer.

Where is Erin based? It would be great to get one in either Amir's or Erin's hands to test, but I can only imagine that it would require a local owner to them to personally deliver & help set up the crossover, amps and speakers for testing. These are not simple little bookshelf speakers that you just connect speaker wires to. There are several LX521 and other Linkwitz version owners in the Seattle area.

 

[jtwrace]

DSP technology is still evolving & class D tech too. A built in active XOver & amp is kind of limiting options to try out various components. System like D&D is more of a closed one than an M2..

This isn't really true. I have a full JBL M2 system +4 subs with the SOTA Audiolense.

 

[hardisj]

Where is Erin based?

Near Huntsville, Alabama.

 

[richard12511]

This isn't really true. I have a full JBL M2 system +4 subs with the SOTA Audiolense.

What output type are you using from your PC running Audiolense? Are you using ASIO4All? I tried desperately to get Audiolense working awhile back(so that I could employ Mitch) for my multichannel room, but was never able to get it to work. It would always throw an exception during the measurement process. I tried 3 different Windows 10 machines, two different AVRs, and both 64 and 32 bit clients. The common pieces through all attempts were HDMI out and ASIO4All.

In the end, I gave up and resigned myself to waiting for HDMI 2.1(supports 32 channels), but maybe I have other options that I didn’t try? Your post has reinvigorated my motivation a bit

 

[jtwrace]

What output type are you using from your PC running Audiolense? Are you using ASIO4All? I tried desperately to get Audiolense working awhile back(so that I could employ Mitch) for my multichannel room, but was never able to get it to work. It would always throw an exception during the measurement process. I tried 3 different Windows 10 machines, two different AVRs, and both 64 and 32 bit clients. The common pieces through all attempts were HDMI out and ASIO4All.

In the end, I gave up and resigned myself to waiting for HDMI 2.1(supports 32 channels), but maybe I have other options that I didn’t try? Your post has reinvigorated my motivation a bit

I'm using USB from the NUC to the DAC. My Motu has an ASIO driver with Cuemix which is the software. About a year ago I tried AL too and ran into an odd error that nobody could figure out. Fast forward when I did my podcast with Mitch I mentioned it to him afterwards and he told me "that error has just been resolved about a month ago". Needless to say I had to try again and this time it was successful and so glad I did.

 

[jhaider]

I would like to see measurements of the more home-friendly options out there, like the JBL scl-2/4/7.

I’ll have to see if I took separate measurements of my old SCL-3 as installed in the mantel in our old living room. I can’t pull up my Dirac in room measurements because they no longer let you use the program unless it’s connected to the processor (sigh). From memory it’s generally very good but there’s a bit of a midrange dip. In the new house (unconstrained by a fireplace in the front of the room) we opted for 3 708i’s at the same orientation and elevation over 708i L/R and SCL-3 C. I think the three identical front speakers setup is better.

SCL-3 is considerably better than SCL-4 at the same price - two 5” neo magnet woofers instead of 1 7” mud magnet woofer. Downside is SCL-3 is deeper. Too deep (6” I think) for many wall cavities.

 

[Absolute]

Thank you for your thoughts, @jhaider , it's really interesting to hear that.

 

[tktran303]

Please know, these are very picky comments. I love both speakers and feel very fortunate to have both. If you took one away and left me with the other, I'd feel incredibly lucky to have the other. But they are both different and exceptional all at the same time. I did just visit a high end shop where they had the Magico A5s playing and I wouldn't give up either of these to get those $25k speakers.

Hello Paul,

There’s a fellow on Oplug who sold his LX521.4; bought an M2; and missed his LX521 so much he bought LX521.4. Was that you?

What a fortunate fellow.

I also consider myself very fortunate enough to own and keep multiple pairs of speakers without ever having to sell one, and thus relying on auditory memory.

Last week I went looking to buy the Revel Ultima Salon 2; stock is low (a little birdy told me they’ve been discontinued); so instead I was persuaded to consider the top of the Performa line F338Be; and then the KEF Blade 2. It was a nice afternoon because I also got to experience the Dutch&Dutch 8C.

I know we are splitting straws here about which is better, but really at this level it is about the pro and cons and which you like better.

Did I like it better than my own MusicAndDesign NaO II RS?

Well yes and no. It all depends on the program material.

Staring at all the spinorama charts and their preference scores etc is like me describing to you how a wine tastes; but it’s not going tell you whether you like a Merlot or Bordeaux (or Shiraz) better.

There seems a view that a new measurement technique (and 2020 seems to be the year of the spinormama/CTA-2034A) will tell you all you that need to know.

Yes it does advance the understanding of how to measure speakers, and can help compare a speaker with a preference score of 3 and one of 6.

But get a few 7+ speaker together and you will get differences and preferences. Not all that can be measured matters, and not all that matters can be measured.

 

[Champster]

Hello Paul,

There’s a fellow on Oplug who sold his LX521.4; bought an M2; and missed his LX521 so much he bought LX521.4. Was that you?

What a fortunate fellow.

I also consider myself very fortunate enough to own and keep multiple pairs of speakers without ever having to sell one, and thus relying on auditory memory.

Last week I went looking to buy the Revel Ultima Salon 2; stock is low (a little birdy told me they’ve been discontinued); so instead I was convinced to listened to the Revel F328Be; and then the KEF Blade 2. It was a nice afternoon because I also got to experience the Dutch&Dutch 8C.

I know we are splitting straws here about which is better, but really at this level it is about the pro and cons and which you like better.

Did I like it better than my own MusicAndDesign NaO II RS?

Well yes and no. It all depends on the program material.

Staring at all the spinorama charts and their preference scores etc is like me describing to you how a wine tastes; but it’s not going tell you whether you like a Merlot or Bordeaux (or Shiraz) better.

There seems a view that a new measurement technique (and 2020 seems to be the year of the spinormama/CTA-2034A) will tell you all you that need to know.

Yes it does advance the understanding of how to measure speakers, and can help compare a speaker with a preference score of 3 and one of 6.

But get a few 7+ speaker together and you will get differences and preferences. Not all that can be measured matters, and not all that matters can be measured.

Hello tktran303,
Yes, that probably was me, but let me please add important details that you missed. I sold the LX521s to prepare for a move across the country and packing them, without boxes and in multiple parts, seemed to be a recipe for disaster with the moving company where our furniture would be in storage for some time. I have all the original boxes for the JBL M2s and SUB18s so that made for moving them very easy. Also, I sold my LX521 to a young aspiring audiophile that I wanted to help get started in the hobby. So your characterization of me selling one for the other isn’t the whole story.

In my new home, I will have a dedicated audio room and yes, I am building a new pair of LX521.4 and will have both systems to enjoy because as you said so well, 2034 doesn’t provide all the answers. The question that I can’t wait to find out is over the coming years, when I walk into my audio room, which system will I listen to more and why? Stay tuned…

Yes, 2034 is a hot topic these days and based on my conversations with Dr Toole, I would suggest you continue to seek out a great pair of the Salon2 as, after all of the speakers he has tested, those are the ones he chose. I believe much of his decision was based, as much as anything else on WAF with his new wife, otherwise, he might have selected the M2s for as you know, throughout his book he makes reference to the nearly perfect properties of the M2 (not the Salon2). I go for a very industrial design, so the M2s attracted me however I believe most would say the Salon2s are prettier than the M2.

Although I have not heard them, I would like to hear the D&D 8C. I understand that is very much in the same league.

Thanks for your question,
Paul

 

[peanuts]

i dont think its a coincidence that one would own both speakers. i have not listened to the m2 but i imagine there is no way it would beat lx521 soundstage and imaging. on the other hand if you want volume and punch the m2 is the way to go.
two speakers with different straits.

 

[AudioJester]

The only speakers that bettered my Lx521 was a point source horn system - amazing dynamics and better detail.

The paradox of the Lx521 is that it needs space, usually means larger rooms in your typical home style environment. Yet in a larger room it cant do loud. Or at least it does not sound very nice at louder volumes.

The Lx521 is hard to beat ar low/mod listening levels.